IntenseDebate - Full Facts

3 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - The proposed foreign a... · 3 replies · +1 points

The research is nonsense. It's much cheaper to buy fresh raw ingredients and cook them. Most parents and children just can't be arsed. But it's politically incorrect to say that, so we have to be full of sanctimonious moral outrage and pretend everyone is a victim of capitalism and the patriarchy. Even when living standards are higher now than at anytime in our history.

3 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - David Skelton: It was ... · 1 reply · +1 points

You are making my point for me. The minority of Brexiteers who want a form of national socialism are not represented by the Conservative Party or UKIP / Brexit Party. But the BNP and National Front are pro-Brexit, so there is a connection. See the wiki quote below.

"The BNP has adopted a hard Eurosceptic platform from its foundation.[223] Under Tyndall's leadership, the BNP had overt anti-Europeanist tendencies.[224] Throughout the 1980s and 1990s he maintained the party's opposition to the European Economic Community.[225] Antagonism toward what became the European Union was retained under Griffin's leadership, which called for the UK to leave the Union.[226] One of Vote Leave's biggest donors during the Brexit referendum was former BNP member Gladys Bramall,[227][228] and the party has claimed that its anti-Establishment rhetoric "created the road" to Britain's vote to leave the European Union.[229]"

3 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - The Government is up a... · 1 reply · +1 points

Everything you said the government should of done, they have done. Never in the history of government policy has there been so much transparency. There is an endless amount of data and reports available on the main government website and the ONS. There are almost daily press conferences. Endless Parliamentary sub-committees and debates in the commons. All of which are televised and transcripts published. The CRG has published the minutes of every meeting they have ever had.

To suggest there is no challenge or questioning of government policy is absurd. If anything, there is too much. It's leading to a form of national paralysis. Masks is a bizarre example of bad policy. It's the opposite. There was no evidence earlier on and there use was discouraged by the WHO. Later on evidence was published, now fairly extensive and strong research, suggesting masks have a positive impact. WHO now also recommend mask se. So we changed policy.

You were arguing people want to see the analysis behind the rules, so yes that will take a large report. But even specifying different types of behaviour is difficult. The existing guidance is already fairly extensive and most people complain they can't follow it.

3 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - The Government is up a... · 1 reply · +1 points

Most of the members of the CRG and the minutes of it's meetings have been published for months. Stop grasping at conspiracies were non exist.

3 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - The Government is up a... · 0 replies · +1 points

I have nothing to do with the fullfact organisation and have never claimed to have any connection. They do not have a monopoly on the words full or fact.

3 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - The Government is up a... · 1 reply · +1 points

Again, you are looking for certainty were non exists. However any reasonable person would accept the restrictions we have implemented, in the aggregate, reduce the infection rate and consequentially hospital admissions and deaths.

One week deaths data can not be taken as a trend (if you had a basic understanding of data analytics or research you would know that). We have nine weeks of data from the second wave showing there have been at the very least a moderate level of excess deaths. The links you keep posting demonstrate that, but again you don't understand how to interpret what you are posting. That's not an insult it's a fact.

I do not use emotive language, I use facts. Hence my nickname. And in terms of nicknames, the term 'people in glass houses should not throw stones' comes to mind.

3 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - The Government is up a... · 3 replies · +1 points

I said in my original post that we always run at about 90% capacity and it will not take much to tip us over the edge. We need COVID restrictions to prevent that.

Week 44 is not a peak. It is likely to increase again based on published NHS deaths. The report you referenced clearly states the UK has 'moderate excess deaths' using the Z score. ONS also shows we have excess deaths above the 5 year average.

If the hospitals are full, people will be dying in the corridors and car parks as they bang on the doors of hospitals that will of closed their doors. What do you think happens to acutely sick people when hospitals are full? Everyone just takes a paracetamol and waits patiently at home until things calm down.

You need to do more reading on excess deaths. You do not understand the data you are posting. The cleary show we have excess deaths.

3 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - The Government is up a... · 3 replies · +1 points

Yes, it would take at least a 1000 page manual if you wanted to analyse and provide rules for every human activity. There are always caveats and exceptions. We are socially complicated creatures.

You are essentially asking for a level of certainty that does not exist. That has been the problem with this pandemic. The government is dealing with a public where many people are losing their 'science virginity'. Science does not provide absolute truth. It provides a probable indication of causation based on the available data. The data constantly changes and often most of the data is unknown. Therefore the conclusions of the analysis will constantly change (and have). The government should be commended for undertaking 'u turns'.

Basically, we all need to grow up.

3 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - The Government is up a... · 5 replies · +1 points

The hospitals are not full. The whole idea of the restrictions was to ensure they were not full. So the restrictions can be assumed to of worked (we have had some form of restrictions for two months now)

The chart you provided for excess deaths shows the UK has a 'substantial increase' using the 'Z score. I think you are misreading it. You can also view the actual ONS data which shows the same thing. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommuni...

If you know we can reduce current deaths with actions that may cause additional deaths in the future (which are for all intents and purposes unknowable) then it makes sense to go ahead with the actions.

Again, all we are trying to do here is to stop people dying in hospital car parks due to the hospitals over flowing. That seems reasonable to me. We are not trying to prevent old people from dying who would of died anyway.

3 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - The Government is up a... · 5 replies · +1 points

We need to be grown up about this. The government can't write a 1000 page manual listing ever known human activity and indicate which are and aren't allowed. It needs to be broad brush so people can understand. As we have seen, perceptions do matter. The media and opposition are obsessive about exploiting every possible contradiction and feigning moral outrage (eg cummings trip).

I actually think one of the reasons they moved out of tierring and into a full lockdown was because tiering was seen as 'attacking the north'. The later is a ludicrous suggestion but was seriously being put forward by the media and opposition.

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