IntenseDebate - Bigshaker

14 years ago @ Islam in Europe - Malmö: Woman dies... · 1 reply · 0 points

Please, you know what an honor culture is - you're the one who made the point above about cultural attitudes, including honor and shame, being to blame for honor killings. I didn't say that in "Islam maintaining honour is more important than the truth"; however, Islamists never, ever accept blame or criticism or responsibility, even in blatant contradiction of all the evidence - all that is shifted onto the West. As for evidence, there is a mountain of it - but look it up yourself. I have already spent way too much time pointlessly debating an apologist.

Since you've already willfully misinterpreted much of what I've said, I can't know what you think my "rhetoric is implying," but I stand by what I said. As for sweeping comments, I'm usually precise about referring to Islamists, but my general statement still stands - the Muslim community as a whole does not take enough responsibility for combating the radicalism in its midst.

14 years ago @ Islam in Europe - Malmö: Woman dies... · 1 reply · 0 points

"The rising wave of animosity towards Islam and muslims in the West has more to do with lack of knowledge and fear of the unknown than it does with the acts of radical islamists" - You're kidding, right? You don't think events like 9/11, 7/7, 11/25 etc. have more to do with attitudes toward Islam than "ignorance" and "fear of the unknown," especially since Westerners are more curious about and more knowledgeable about Islam now than ever before?

You're right, there's no point in a dialogue. By the way, I DID differentiate between Islam and Islamism. But it's also my stance that "mainstream" Muslims must do more to differentiate themselves from what you call "the extremists who abuse Islam."

14 years ago @ Islam in Europe - France: Rioting after ... · 2 replies · 0 points

Your suggestion that there is a moderate sharia and an extreme sharia is false. Whether the Islamists have the best scholars or not is irrelevant, since the Islamists are the ones currently driving Islam and controlling the discourse, as I said.

"People can leave Islam as they wish. Of course Islamists wouldnt agree with that" - My point exactly.

I'm not a hatemonger, nor am I ignorant about Islam, nor were my points incoherent, nor were they stereotypes, lies and half-truths. Your apologetics did little to "address" my points, much less counter them with the whole truth.

14 years ago @ Islam in Europe - France: Rioting after ... · 0 replies · 0 points

I didn't say democracy and sharia are total opposites (although your assertion that Islam emphasizes the equality of all people is false). I said that the Islamists declare Western democracy and law incompatible with Islam. This is not a myth, this is their declared stance. It is NOT my assumption that Islamists bear a "mindless hate" toward the West. It's not mindless - they have specific political and religious-based enmity. How we rule ourselves is certainly NOT immaterial to them - it is VERY relevent because they seek the complete collapse and downfall of the West, which is also not a myth; once again, it is their declared intention.

14 years ago @ Islam in Europe - Malmö: Woman dies... · 3 replies · 0 points

Of course I'm not implying that all Muslims are honorless. By facade I mean that in honor cultures, such as that from which Islam springs, one's honor - or even the thin, hypocritical facade of it - is all-important, more so than the truth. This leads to brick-wall resistance to any criticism, however legitimate, and absolute refusal to acknowledge fault or guilt.

No, Islamophobia, the "irrational fear of Islam," is not "very real." There is, however, a very real concern about the demonstrable threat of radical Islam. Islamophobia is a trumped-up charge designed to shut down any criticism of that threat

14 years ago @ Islam in Europe - Malmö: Woman dies... · 0 replies · 0 points

Just like you don't have time to lay out a long critique every time you're asked for one, neither do I. But I'll try to address your main points.

No, I'm certainly not saying every Muslim is responsible for acts of terrorism - where did you get that assumption? Why must every criticism of radical Islam be accompanied by the tired old disclaimer that not every Muslim in the world is being accused? My point is that there is not enough open, public acknowledgement in the Muslim community of the Islamist problem within its midst (admittedly, I personally feel that many - most? - Muslims in the West are cowed into silence by the fundamentalists, who control the discourse). The Muslim community as a whole tends to close ranks against any legitimate criticism of, and concern about, radicalization and terror. Witness the kneejerk complaints issued by CAIR in the U.S. when anyone dares even raise the subject. (I personally know anti-jihadist Muslims who resist this tendency, but the media never bother to look beyond groups like CAIR - and those Muslims are harassed into silence or literally declared apostates by the fundamentalists they oppose).

14 years ago @ Islam in Europe - France: Rioting after ... · 6 replies · 0 points

Albus, thanks for explaining your position. It's not enough, as I said, to simply come here and call "us lot" names. But I'll pass on "taking your word" for anything, especially when you make insulting and condescending blanket accusations toward every commenter here.

As for your explanation, you neglect to acknowledge that Islamists insist that Western laws and democracy are not valid, because they are manmade and not from Allah, and therefore "true" Muslims are not to owe allegiance to those laws or to an infidel state. Not all Muslims - there are certainly many Muslims who are happy to reject sharia and embrace Western democracy. But those Muslims are considered apostates by the Islamists, and apostasy is punishable by death.

14 years ago @ Islam in Europe - Malmö: Woman dies... · 0 replies · 0 points

My comment was not "a confused jumble of words" - it's perfectly clear. And it was directed not so much toward the topic of this thread, but toward YOUR comment, which I quoted above, that suggests that Muslims are simply innocent victims of Islamophobes, racists, media bias, etc. This is a typical example of Muslims not taking responsibility for crimes and/or acts of terror committed in the name of Islam.

14 years ago @ Islam in Europe - Belgium: Increasing Is... · 0 replies · 0 points

Again albus, personal attacks aren't enough - but maybe that's all you've got. If you have a point to make, do so.

14 years ago @ Islam in Europe - France: Rioting after ... · 11 replies · 0 points

Then enlighten us, albus. It's not enough to come here and accuse someone of ignorance. Anyone of Dan's caliber can come here and do that.

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