en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/292998 Comments by Bigshaker http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment27021167 Please, you know what an honor culture is - you're the one who made the point above about cultural attitudes, including honor and shame, being to blame for honor killings. I didn't say that in "Islam maintaining honour is more important than the truth"; however, Islamists never, ever accept blame or criticism or responsibility, even in blatant contradiction of all the evidence - all that is shifted onto the West. As for evidence, there is a mountain of it - but look it up yourself. I have already spent way too much time pointlessly debating an apologist. Since you've already willfully misinterpreted much of what I've said, I can't know what you think my "rhetoric is implying," but I stand by what I said. As for sweeping comments, I'm usually precise about referring to Islamists, but my general statement still stands - the Muslim community as a whole does not take enough responsibility for combating the radicalism in its midst. Sun, 12 Jul 2009 07:10:55 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment27021167 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment27020461 "The rising wave of animosity towards Islam and muslims in the West has more to do with lack of knowledge and fear of the unknown than it does with the acts of radical islamists" - You're kidding, right? You don't think events like 9/11, 7/7, 11/25 etc. have more to do with attitudes toward Islam than "ignorance" and "fear of the unknown," especially since Westerners are more curious about and more knowledgeable about Islam now than ever before? You're right, there's no point in a dialogue. By the way, I DID differentiate between Islam and Islamism. But it's also my stance that "mainstream" Muslims must do more to differentiate themselves from what you call "the extremists who abuse Islam." Sun, 12 Jul 2009 06:56:19 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment27020461 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/france-rioting-after-man-dies-in-police.html#IDComment27020091 Your suggestion that there is a moderate sharia and an extreme sharia is false. Whether the Islamists have the best scholars or not is irrelevant, since the Islamists are the ones currently driving Islam and controlling the discourse, as I said. "People can leave Islam as they wish. Of course Islamists wouldnt agree with that" - My point exactly. I'm not a hatemonger, nor am I ignorant about Islam, nor were my points incoherent, nor were they stereotypes, lies and half-truths. Your apologetics did little to "address" my points, much less counter them with the whole truth. Sun, 12 Jul 2009 06:48:21 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/france-rioting-after-man-dies-in-police.html#IDComment27020091 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/france-rioting-after-man-dies-in-police.html#IDComment27020081 I didn't say democracy and sharia are total opposites (although your assertion that Islam emphasizes the equality of all people is false). I said that the Islamists declare Western democracy and law incompatible with Islam. This is not a myth, this is their declared stance. It is NOT my assumption that Islamists bear a "mindless hate" toward the West. It's not mindless - they have specific political and religious-based enmity. How we rule ourselves is certainly NOT immaterial to them - it is VERY relevent because they seek the complete collapse and downfall of the West, which is also not a myth; once again, it is their declared intention. Sun, 12 Jul 2009 06:48:14 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/france-rioting-after-man-dies-in-police.html#IDComment27020081 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment27014856 Of course I'm not implying that all Muslims are honorless. By facade I mean that in honor cultures, such as that from which Islam springs, one's honor - or even the thin, hypocritical facade of it - is all-important, more so than the truth. This leads to brick-wall resistance to any criticism, however legitimate, and absolute refusal to acknowledge fault or guilt. No, Islamophobia, the "irrational fear of Islam," is not "very real." There is, however, a very real concern about the demonstrable threat of radical Islam. Islamophobia is a trumped-up charge designed to shut down any criticism of that threat Sun, 12 Jul 2009 04:42:55 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment27014856 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment27014851 Just like you don't have time to lay out a long critique every time you're asked for one, neither do I. But I'll try to address your main points. No, I'm certainly not saying every Muslim is responsible for acts of terrorism - where did you get that assumption? Why must every criticism of radical Islam be accompanied by the tired old disclaimer that not every Muslim in the world is being accused? My point is that there is not enough open, public acknowledgement in the Muslim community of the Islamist problem within its midst (admittedly, I personally feel that many - most? - Muslims in the West are cowed into silence by the fundamentalists, who control the discourse). The Muslim community as a whole tends to close ranks against any legitimate criticism of, and concern about, radicalization and terror. Witness the kneejerk complaints issued by CAIR in the U.S. when anyone dares even raise the subject. (I personally know anti-jihadist Muslims who resist this tendency, but the media never bother to look beyond groups like CAIR - and those Muslims are harassed into silence or literally declared apostates by the fundamentalists they oppose). Sun, 12 Jul 2009 04:42:44 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment27014851 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/france-rioting-after-man-dies-in-police.html#IDComment27012991 Albus, thanks for explaining your position. It's not enough, as I said, to simply come here and call "us lot" names. But I'll pass on "taking your word" for anything, especially when you make insulting and condescending blanket accusations toward every commenter here. As for your explanation, you neglect to acknowledge that Islamists insist that Western laws and democracy are not valid, because they are manmade and not from Allah, and therefore "true" Muslims are not to owe allegiance to those laws or to an infidel state. Not all Muslims - there are certainly many Muslims who are happy to reject sharia and embrace Western democracy. But those Muslims are considered apostates by the Islamists, and apostasy is punishable by death. Sun, 12 Jul 2009 04:05:26 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/france-rioting-after-man-dies-in-police.html#IDComment27012991 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment27009712 My comment was not "a confused jumble of words" - it's perfectly clear. And it was directed not so much toward the topic of this thread, but toward YOUR comment, which I quoted above, that suggests that Muslims are simply innocent victims of Islamophobes, racists, media bias, etc. This is a typical example of Muslims not taking responsibility for crimes and/or acts of terror committed in the name of Islam. Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:55:04 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment27009712 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/belgium-increasing-islamophobia.html#IDComment27008910 Again albus, personal attacks aren't enough - but maybe that's all you've got. If you have a point to make, do so. Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:39:07 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/belgium-increasing-islamophobia.html#IDComment27008910 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/france-rioting-after-man-dies-in-police.html#IDComment27008781 Then enlighten us, albus. It's not enough to come here and accuse someone of ignorance. Anyone of Dan's caliber can come here and do that. Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:36:14 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/france-rioting-after-man-dies-in-police.html#IDComment27008781 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/belgium-increasing-islamophobia.html#IDComment27008657 Exactly right, Pastaneta. Dan is one of the worst examples of an internet nerd who can only validate his own existence through angry, bigoted, online personal attacks. Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:33:58 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/belgium-increasing-islamophobia.html#IDComment27008657 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26979626 Consider myself owned? "Shove it up your ass"? Ooohh, zing! You got me, Oscar Wilde! I could never recover from those witty retorts! No, I haven't read that book, and I don't believe you have either. If she says this "constantly," then you shouldn't have any trouble providing a quote that shows she "believes both India and Burma to be Arab countries." In any case, Phyllis Chesler doesn't have to prove HER credibility. What you should concentrate on is YOUR credibility. Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:21:04 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26979626 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26979057 Dan, let me give you some advice about your replies. Try to make them comprehensible (how, for example, is my comment like "the pot calling the kettle black"?). Try to present your point of view using facts, or at the very least, reasoned argument instead of vague name-calling (What do you mean, for example, by "people like you"? How is my comment "ironic"?). And stop using words you don't know the meaning of, like "ironic." Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:10:16 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26979057 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26946735 "some ppl would happily blur this distinction so they can put yet another crime on the doorstep of muslims and Islam." No one is laying any crimes on the doorstep of Muslims and Islam that Muslims themselves aren't responsible for. But they won't take responsibility for that because 1) they must maintain their facade of honor at all costs; 2) they do not accept even legitimate criticism from kaffirs; and 3) it serves their purpose to perpetually play the victim card and to trot out the trusty old "Islamophobia" accusation. Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:50:15 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26946735 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26946201 What are you talking about? Please try to make your replies somehow relate to the comment you're replying to. And "racist retards"? Again, how old are you? Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:36:14 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26946201 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26946130 Hey, Einstein, what does "venerate from Serbia" mean? Seriously, please buy a dictionary. Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:34:37 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26946130 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/munich-uighurs-protest-chinese-embassy.html#IDComment26945733 Wow, your flaccid wit and disconnected replies are so lame. How old are you, really? I have to disagree with Kafirist - it's not fun to goad you, 'cause you're simply not smart enough to make it worthwhile. Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:24:34 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/munich-uighurs-protest-chinese-embassy.html#IDComment26945733 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26935613 Please provide the source for this supposed misquote by the "old hag." Otherwise I'll have to assume you've misread her, have no idea what you're talking about, or are simply lying. Are you implying you're smarter than Phyllis Chesler? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Sat, 11 Jul 2009 02:41:37 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26935613 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26935414 Jackass is right. That was pretty funny, that he got all incensed over an expression he'd never heard, and then tried to bluff his way out of it by accusing Marie-Luise of being too lazy to type the full word "racoon"! Sat, 11 Jul 2009 02:37:21 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26935414 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26935192 Kafirist, don't waste time with Dan. I think I've dealt with him before. All he does is come on here and rage irrationally, call everyone racist and other names, and act like everyone but him is a complete idiot, when in fact he's incapable of reasoned argument and apparently doesn't own a dictionary. I also frankly don't believe him when he says he served in Afghanistan. Sat, 11 Jul 2009 02:32:48 +0000 http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2009/07/malmo-woman-dies-after-balcony-fall.html#IDComment26935192