Kevin D. Johnson

Kevin D. Johnson

34p

44 comments posted · 1 followers · following 2

537 weeks ago @ PROPHEZEI - Yeah right. · 0 replies · +1 points

Grrr...I'm having issues with comment appearing.

537 weeks ago @ PROPHEZEI - Yeah right. · 0 replies · +1 points

kevin d,

My complaint is not with technology in and of itself.

The problem with the above comment by Mr. Stetzer (and the research behind it) is the inherent assumption that the changes that have been made in churches over the last forty years or so are stylistic only and that the biblical nature of our worship has remained unchanged.

The truth is that along with the stylistic changes came new understandings and practices of worship and that is what has worked to empty our churches and see a marked decline in new converts. I mean, you can go with Mr. Research Man Ed Stetzer and call some guy in a sweater on a bar stool giving a warm and fuzzy talk a sermon but we all know it would be better described as "Mr. Rogers Time". You're not going to get the truth that we see a qualitative difference between what was a sermon back then to what it is today from the information Mr. Stetzer presents or from the conclusions he makes as a result of reviewing this particular research survey.

I'm happy to admit technological innovation into the worship of God's people as long as it truly remains transformative to the culture around us and the underlying biblical purpose is not ignored or tampered with--I just don't see that in contemporary churches today on the whole. After all, the mass printed hymn books themselves are the product of technology invented some five hundred years ago but their legitimate use over that period of time served not only to enrich the legitimate biblical worship of God's people but also influence the culture around them in ways that is likely incalculable.

I don't see the same thing happening with powerpoint and digital projectors, frankly. If anything, in that case, the influence goes quite simply in the wrong direction and the culture around us has transformed the church. It is little wonder then that people would rather go see a movie on Sunday than appear at church ready and able to worship God.

To your last point on the imperfection of worship 'down here'--I can only heartily agree and say that our Lord uses our weaknesses to confound the wisdom of the wise and to work His purposes in this world. Additionally, no one should use their dislike for how worship is conducted in their church to avoid going to church, keep from being a part of church, or staying away from the worship of God's people.

537 weeks ago @ PROPHEZEI - Yeah right. · 1 reply · +1 points

Donb,

I can always count on you to play devil's advocate!

Hymnals are better than plain powerpoint lyrics because the music is written on the page with the words and allows those who are trained to read music to sing in harmony with one another. That is not possible when everyone is singing stuff like "I can sing of your love forever" on the screen without the benefit of the musical arrangement in front of your eyes. I realize that most people today don't know how to read music but that shouldn't keep us from teaching them and taking advantage of the rich hymnody we have historically had in our churches. Additionally, harmony emphasizes the diversity of the Body of Christ by its very nature and is yet another liturgical way to illustrate that which is plainly taught in the Scriptures (cf. 1 Cor. 12).

Worship should transform a culture and not seek to be the same as the surrounding culture. There is nothing to transform if our worship and the corresponding secular culture are the same. It's akin to the salt losing its saltiness.

If you read my posts about the Eucharist carefully, you'll see that I have no need to define one particular era (or even style) of the Church's practice over the years to be part and parcel of what's done in worship on Sunday morning for it to actually be worship. However, it is important that what is done is transformative in nature and biblical by design.

538 weeks ago @ PROPHEZEI - Mark Driscoll Cries Li... · 0 replies · +1 points

Donb,

I was not speaking to Driscoll's personal motivations about anything in this post and you can only get from here to there by making a few assumptions of your own along the way.

538 weeks ago @ PROPHEZEI - One Of My Favorite Chr... · 0 replies · +1 points

Hans...thanks...looks like someone jacked the domain for the cyberhymnal site. Anyway, I provided an alternate link to the Hymnary--I like that site better anyway.

538 weeks ago @ PROPHEZEI - One Of My Favorite Chr... · 0 replies · +1 points

Jim,

You're welcome to use or quote anything you find on this site. Obviously when possible a link back is appreciated.

I don't have the exact source where that quote by von Balthasar came from but I'm pretty sure it was from his work, Love Alone is Credible.

538 weeks ago @ PROPHEZEI - Living the Lie · 0 replies · +1 points

CD...I think perhaps we just need to up your standards a bit...Wilson should be looked at with the same criticality as any other minister or other public figure. That would likely reconcile our views on the whole.

538 weeks ago @ PROPHEZEI - Living the Lie · 1 reply · +1 points

CD,

I'm guessing we'd have some serious disagreements if we really fleshed this out...much of what I know I've learned by experience regarding the CREC, Douglas Wilson, and their other leaders. Nevertheless, I never referred to them as a cult though what I did say is that they often exhibit cultic behavior and I mean that in the sociological sense and not in the way it is often taken by evangelicals looking at groups which have either left the faith or never were a part of it in the first place (ie. Jehovah Witnesses/Mormons).

As far as Wilson's "genuine" motives--really, I don't see how you can claim to know that.

Actions speak louder than words and from everything I've seen in terms of what he has done and how he has acted in certain situations I'd just have to strongly disagree. So, while you are inclined it seems to give him the benefit of the doubt, I have no such inclination because I've learned the hard way that what these men say is not always what they mean nor is it of necessity connected to what they do.

I would also take issue with your contention that cult leaders do not use logic or argumentation or that they're somehow uninterested in the behavior of their followers. If you can see C.J. Mahaney as a cultic figure, I see little reason for Douglas Wilson to escape the charge. In fact, I'd argue that there is more prima facie evidence publicly available for a man like Wilson to muster up a credible charge in that regard.

Last, you are mistaken to think that the CREC is a niche denomination serving a niche community. Like many denominational advocates in other contexts, they consider their understanding and implementation of the faith, the discipline of their churches (and anyone else within their purview), and their implementation of the Mosaic Law as pure blood Rushdoony theonomists to be the only and right way to run the Church and the world. They are as deceptively ecumenical only in the same way Rome is. Though they would disagree with Rome in terms of her theology, they stand together in terms of her legalism and exclusivity were they able to take the reins of power from the rest of Christendom. It matters not now that they are able to get along with other Christian groups and brethren at this point in time given that they are forced by the nature of our democratic society to consider all men and other churches free and legitimate in their own right within the bounds of creedal or biblical orthodoxy (and truthfully, even that is strained since Wilson has no problem interfering in church disputes which are not his own), but you have to ask how they would govern the Church were they in charge of the entire Body. The answer to that question reveals the endgame as far as they are concerned and what they are really working to accomplish.

They are postmillenial for a reason and it might do you well to give that part of their writing some attention when examining these things.

538 weeks ago @ PROPHEZEI - Looking For Me? · 0 replies · +1 points

Jordan,

It kind of deconstructed on its own over a year or so--it was a conversation and place to hang out for a time but I've suspended it mostly because the vast majority of those who originally participated found themselves in different places some years after starting it and the conversation we had going sort of ended as each embarked on their own separate faith-filled journeys. I may bring it online again at some point in the future, but for now I'm devoting effort to this site. Hope you enjoy it too.

539 weeks ago @ PROPHEZEI - As If It Were The Only... · 0 replies · +1 points

You know...there were comments attached to this thread besides trackbacks...I have no idea what happened to them. Weird.