gdp's Comments

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:03:50 +0000

Thanks for you time, I'm done.

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Tue, 22 Mar 2011 14:47:16 +0000

The keeping of the Sabbath is not a Presbyterian thing, here are some Reformed Baptist resources.

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Tue, 22 Mar 2011 14:29:37 +0000

What is the fourth commandment grounded (i.e., what is it's bases) in? "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy...For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy."

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Tue, 22 Mar 2011 14:13:08 +0000

My friend, lean to read words in context, if you can't I will not continue with you. I believe the Sabbath is a creation mandate and is for all manking to keep. Sunday Sabbath is another issue, which I believe to be the case. The article you refered to that said was a refuting of my point, was dealing with Sunday as the Sabbath. Not sure how this was refuting my point when I've been defending the idea of the Sabbath. Dr. Pipa's article is not defending a Sunday Sabbath, but that the Sabbath is a creation ordinance. I then refered you to an audio that defends the changing of the day.

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Tue, 22 Mar 2011 14:08:51 +0000

I'm ignoring everything else my friend. I can not answer every single question thrown at me...it would be an improper use of my time to do so. Can you please tell me what Luke means here regarding the Law of Moses. As you may know, "Law" can mean various things (i.e. 10 commandments, first five books, of Moses, etc.). You can not simply assume he is addressing the Sabbath at this point or even the 10 commendments (as if they are done away with). The context is deling with the Jews requiring the Gentles to do something for salvation. I've never said one has to keep the sabbath for salvation. I'm not sure why you are so bent on knowing if my private part was cut, but since you keep asking, yes it was. Since it was done as a baby, I had no say in it.

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:15:58 +0000

The response to this article was "I took a look at that article, most of it were assumptions and his opinions. He failed to make a solid Biblical case for it. He also just defined Sunday as the Sabbath day, just like that - no basis on scripture there either." Defining the Sabbath as Sunday was not the purpose of the article friend, it was to ground the Sabbath in creation (i.e. God's calling one day out of seven holy, and what that means for us). It was certainly not a bunch of "assumptions and his opinions." You may not agree with his theology and exegesis, but they were not simply assumptions and opinions. The question remains, what is God teaching the people of God by setting apart this one day out of seven at the beginning, and are there, if any, implications for man.

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:15:45 +0000

Lastly, I pointed to this article as a reference to why the Sabbath is not done away. it is part of the order of creation. Dr. Pipa points out that "God instituted the Sabbath, along with work (Gen. 1:28; 2:15) and marriage (Gen. 2:18-25), to govern the lives of all mankind. Just as the ordinances of work and marriage are permanent, so is the ordinance of the Sabbath." Dr. Pipa proves his point through biblical theology and exegesis and concludes by saying "By blessing and sanctifying the day, God communicated to Adam and Eve, and through Scripture to us, the principle of Sabbath keeping. We are to treat as holy what God declares to be holy. We conclude that the observing of one day out of seven is a perpetually binding moral obligation because of this creation ordinance." Does Dr. Pipa say everything that could be said, obviously not, it is this is a denominational magazine and space is short (see he book),

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:15:27 +0000

Rick, in one of your comments above you said, "F_melo, I just love the hypocrisy from people like Jeff. " You say this as if you know how I live. Can you please point out my hypocrisy. If not, please do not make such an accusation of another brother in Christ.

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:14:14 +0000

Third, it is quite impressive to quote scripture that seems to support you view, but you have to do more then just quote passages. Arius did this to deny the deity of Christ, but when you take the whole counsel of God, Arius did not have a leg to stand on. So, it is not about playing bible-ping-pong; I've done enough of that with the LDS. Rick quote Jesus as saying that the Sabbath is for man, then assumes that this means man can do whatever he wants on the Sabbath. This is simply reading into the text. Tell me, from exegesis, what this text means. Does it mean the Sabbath is does it mean the Sabbath is no longer binding, if so, how do you get to that point. If it means man can do what he wants on the Sabbath, why did God institute the Sabbath in the first place. Did the Pharisee add to the Sabbath things they shouldn't have...I believe we are all agreed there, but that does not negate what God did require on the Sabbbath (see Is. 58: 13-14).

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:13:59 +0000

Second, it is interesting how easy ideas change in a conversation, with what seems to be no thought. I have no be defending a Sunday sabbath, only that a Sabbath remains (we know this not only from the OT, but from the NT, see Hebrews chapter 4. But if you want a defense of why the day change see here.

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:13:30 +0000

Someone ask me why I continue to refer to others writings. I guess for two reasons: 1) I am busy with school. 2) I am not a lone-ranger Christian. Christianity did not start with me...Christianity is not "me and my Bible." We belong to a historic Christian Church. And others have done much more work in these areas than I could or can at this point. So, there are again a few resources that might be of interest to ya'll. First, you may want to take a look at a new work <a href="http://www.wtsbooks.com/product-exec/product_id/7328/nm/From+the+Finger+of+God%3A+The+Biblical+and+Theological+Basis+for+the+Threefold+Division+of+the+Law+%28Paperback%29/?utm_source=jdowns&utm_medium=jdowns">From the Finger of God: The Biblical and Theological Basis for the Threefold Division of the Law. The three-fold division of the law is moral, ceremonial, and civil, and the question, which laws did Jesus fulfill and therefore are no longer binding on us, and which are still binding. For example, are the 10 Commandments still binding. If so, the fourth commandment applies.

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:45:02 +0000

Really Rick! One verse does not tell you everything. Let me simply ask, because it seems we are working from two different places. Do you believe the OT & NT are Christian scriptures?

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 21:32:45 +0000

Mrs. Hammer, 1st, I'm not putting burdens on anyone my friend, I simply requested that the author of the post simply rethink the idea of the sabbath, and I did this because he quoted the Col. passage. 2nd, I'm not judging anyone on the sabbath, simply made a suggestion. 3rd, clearly, you show you have not studied this issue, and that is ok. But, if you did, you'd know that those who hold to the Sabbath say that deeds of mercy and necessity are permitted (and we see example in the life of Christ, on the Sabbath). It is very unfortunate that you wax so well, a simply look at exegesis of the passage your mention, simply will not match your view, which is why I refereed you to Dr. Shaw's posts. If you don't want to read them, that's up to you, but you should speak like you know it all, when you clearly have not done any reading on this topic. How do you love God Mr. Hammer... You love God by doing doing what he commands.

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 20:24:59 +0000

f melo, I was responding to a particular point regarding Jesus and the disciples and their practice of the Sabbath. You not understanding my statement in context is a probablem with these types of forums, and it get real tiring to continue to correct someone for something I did not say...or misunderstand what I said, while not reading my point in context. Do your homework on this issue, it is a historic Christian position, only recently to be abandoned.

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 19:46:07 +0000

BTW: One more thing, for a defense that the sabbath is not simply a Jewish practice, you may want to take a look at this article, In case you are concerned about the OPC, we have a former LDS Jody Morris, who writes in this edition of our denominational magazine.

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 19:41:20 +0000

Second, I am confessional Christian, in the reformed camp, a member of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. I am not a Mormon, never was, in fact I've been involved in Countercult work since 1994ish. If you do not want to purchase the above book, you can check out one of Dr. Pipa's lectures on the Lord's day here. With that, have at it...I can not continue with so many questions, and little time. I'm sorry I had to post this in multiple comments, hope there is no confusion.

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 19:41:07 +0000

Lastly, you write "So if we dont follow the sabbath then it's really not a big deal." No big deal. Even if we were to take Jesus simply as our example, we would follow him in keeping the Sabbath, as this is exactly what he did. Not only did he, but the apostles did as well. What was the custom on the Sabbath Mr. Hammer? For the other, others, there is no way that I can sit here and repond to each one of you the way I have with Mr. Hammer. I will say this, I never said, nor indicated (not sure who someone could have even thought so) that this issue had to do with salvation. Continued...

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 19:40:02 +0000

Finally, you state "Then add to that Jesus was accused of breaking the sabbath, Did Jesus ever stop and say, sorry your right, I must follow the sabbath and sit around and do nothing." Wow, this really reveals you have not done any reading on this issues. Can you site me anyone (pre-reformation, post-reformation, puritan, etc., etc.) who holds this characterization of the Sabbath. You can't. Continued...

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 19:39:30 +0000

Mr. Hammer, you state: "Jesus said the sabbath was for us, not us to be bound by doing things or not doing things" Of course, why the pharisees began looking at the Sabbath this way, no one I know of who hold to the sabbath being an ordinace of God, views it this way. It is not a matter of do a do nots. It is a matter of how best may I bring glory and honor to God. How would he have me to serve him...on a day that he set a part from the beginning of creation. Continued...

Mormon Coffee : Mormonism’s Sabbath Police

Mon, 21 Mar 2011 19:38:51 +0000

4th, you say "Add to that, the sabbath was for the Jews not us Gentiles." Not sure how you come up with this, but the sabbath is a creation ordinace (Gen. 2:1-3), a pattern that God himself established, long before there was a particular nation of Jews (i.e. Israel). 5th, you seem to have the idea that there is a seperation between Israel and the church, which I simply do not accept. We (Jew and Gentle) are all one people of God; Peter makes this pretty clear in 1 Peter 2:9, writing to the church (quoting the OT mind you and applying it to the church) "but you are a chosen race, a royal prieshood, a holy natuion, a people for God's own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you one were not a poeple, but now you are the people of God..." We are one people of God. Continued...