en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/942421 Comments by claytoncoates http://gregatkinson.com/2010/09/03/pastor-vs-preacher/#IDComment97356326 Samantics is what we are getting hung up on- that's all. I understand Ephesians, Timothy, Corinthians and Titus. I understand using people unto their gifting and calling. I understand regional campusses as I have spoken at them and also cunslulted them. I don't know that I would call this a multi-site revolution as this is simply another form of what demonations have been doing for many many decades- now we see churches in a post-denominational time period, in my humble opinion. In my interactions, and they are many, I have found regional campus pastors to battle frustration from not being utilized at their full potential. Many arguements can be made as to whether this is the faolt of the paradigm ot the person....but it is a valid point of concern. Again- I am in no way apposed to regional campusses.....I would simply go about a specific element of the campus in a diferent manner- Mon, 6 Sep 2010 22:28:15 +0000 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/09/03/pastor-vs-preacher/#IDComment97356326 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/09/03/pastor-vs-preacher/#IDComment97298114 Greg, you have to 1st come to the table with the same definitions. Otherwise you enter into an argument based on symantics. Secondly, who is the one that God has placed to lead, be accountable for, speak into the vision and mission of that local fellowship. I am the "lead" pastor and have an "executive" pastor. We define "lead pastor" as the head pastor and lead elder among equal elders. You know where I stand on the campus pastor role. I love campus pastors...just wish they had a larger platform to preach....I know that if they are a campus pastor that God has birthed within them this passion and desire. We sponsor church plants and not regional campusses. However one day we will probably rehab churches as regionals but place a lead pastor there to preach live. My goal is to equip and meet with these pastors on a weekly basis for accountability, training, teaching and message planning. The goal is to then use the main campus as the hub of accounting, all media, overall vision casting, cg, av, etc. But then as we build out messages together, they would then expant upon the outline with their own illustrations, etc. At that point the messages would still speak to the current and pressings needs of God's people in that local setting. - kinda rambled- sorry about that- Mon, 6 Sep 2010 14:57:33 +0000 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/09/03/pastor-vs-preacher/#IDComment97298114 http://www.solucionesseo.com/blog-posicionamiento/photoshop/photoshop-cs5-nuevas-funciones/#IDComment82753199 I am all about begin civil to one another. I would agree with that. However tolerance is much more than a behavior. Tolerance cannot be discussed without placing it into the context of philosophy. I can be civil to someone with differing views, but to say that I am tolerant means something very different. Tolerance stems from the belief that there are no absolute truths....relativism. Relativism bases truth on practical experience and belief based in part on emotion. To say one is tolerant is to say that one is "o.k." with a philosophy and way of life that is contrary to a Biblical World View- which says that there is absolute truth. Tolerance is also a "self-defeating" argument. People who advocate tolerance say that we must be tolerant. In saying this they themselves are not tolerant..... I want to be civil. I want to enter into dialogue with others. I can be kind and believe I am a kind, loving person. However I wouldn't say that I am tolerant. Mon, 28 Jun 2010 14:45:31 +0000 http://www.solucionesseo.com/blog-posicionamiento/photoshop/photoshop-cs5-nuevas-funciones/#IDComment82753199 http://blog.ourchurch.com/2009/07/30/why-willow-creek-and-saddleback-are-losing-influence-while-north-point-and-lifechurchtv-are-gaining-influence/#IDComment65709908 I agree with so much that you have to say Bill. Thanks for blazing the trail and creating systems and processes, curriculum and a care structure so that I can enhance and contextualize without have to re-create. It is funny to read this thread that is just 35 weeks old. Lifechurch.tv and Northpoint are already on the slide down in "influence"- not sure where we get the stats for the popularity contest. They were the churches of the 2000's and there are new churches and new pastors rising up in the 2010's. Funny how life is. Blogging and Tech teams will begin to dicipate in part off of church staffs as we have seen this trend emerge after the market crash and many meta-churches have decided that these guys were cool...but maybe not as needed as first thought. There are many things which are passing trends and at the end of the day we all agree that we do what we do, no matter the style, coolness, location, etc., because we want to see one more person embrace the life change that comes from knowing Jesus. I have never been a part of the WCA, I was on staff at S-Back, have friends at L-church and N-Point, and boy can we all learn from one another- its awesomeness being a part of the kingdom. God is so good- Sat, 3 Apr 2010 05:50:28 +0000 http://blog.ourchurch.com/2009/07/30/why-willow-creek-and-saddleback-are-losing-influence-while-north-point-and-lifechurchtv-are-gaining-influence/#IDComment65709908 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/31/guest-post-by-michael-robison-one-out-of-ten/#IDComment65178262 Thanks for the post Michael. I have been in a the ministry for 14 years but it is only as of late that I have been a senior pastor. You are right about many things. I have apologized to several pastors I have served under because I would always push too hard and question thier decisions making. How arogant was that?! I had no idea what they were going through nor the weight that they carried until I because a senior pastor myself. The role, the weight, the stress is not even in the same ballpark.....yet the joy is full because I am doing exactly what I am SHAPED to do. How awesome is that! I know you feel the same way. I had a mentor early in my ministry tell me the same statistic and then he said, "the problem is that pastor's begin listening to what people say." Either they listen to the ones who praise you, believe it, get prideful and then sin OR the listen to the naysayers, believe it, feel worthless, and jump ship." Our focus must be on the Lord and we must strengthen one another. Somedays we struggle with the world, somedays our well-meaning people, and yet other days our well-meaning staff. We must love God, love our family, love ous staff, and love our church while supporting one another. It was a good reminder this morning- THX- C Thu, 1 Apr 2010 12:47:33 +0000 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/31/guest-post-by-michael-robison-one-out-of-ten/#IDComment65178262 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/26/guest-post-by-anne-jackson-forgiveness-and-reconciliation/#IDComment64697117 it was a chapter in the small group curriculum- probably the most eye opening for my specific small group- I have the curriculum or workbook and DVD if you wanted me to send it to you- Mon, 29 Mar 2010 19:49:16 +0000 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/26/guest-post-by-anne-jackson-forgiveness-and-reconciliation/#IDComment64697117 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/29/guest-post-by-steve-komanapalli-when-youre-waiting-on-god/#IDComment64666155 Great post Stevie K- miss you man. Sorry to hear about all that is spinning around you. I know God is using you and Nicole in amazing ways in these situations. Great reminder to be on God's time and focus on the Hope we have "In Christ." Mon, 29 Mar 2010 15:40:19 +0000 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/29/guest-post-by-steve-komanapalli-when-youre-waiting-on-god/#IDComment64666155 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/26/guest-post-by-anne-jackson-forgiveness-and-reconciliation/#IDComment64286526 sounds like you went through 40 Days of Love! ;) Sat, 27 Mar 2010 02:42:56 +0000 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/26/guest-post-by-anne-jackson-forgiveness-and-reconciliation/#IDComment64286526 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/25/guest-post-by-brian-vasil-three-things-ive-learned-as-an-internet-campus-pastor/#IDComment64079079 Enjoyed the article- I hired my associate from Saddleback to come here to Texas with me. When I left she became the Internet campus and Internet small groups guru for Saddleback (along with McGill who is the guru for everything). She has a ton of insight about this subject and is beginning to inch forward little bit by little bit here in our small church context. Applying useful technology can really allow small churches to do exponentially more Thu, 25 Mar 2010 19:01:27 +0000 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/25/guest-post-by-brian-vasil-three-things-ive-learned-as-an-internet-campus-pastor/#IDComment64079079 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment64063522 after sleeping on this- I don't agree... Rick's regional campusses are never within driving distance of the main campus. It has nothing to do with lage expensive buildings. The start up cost for just San Clemente was well over $1mm. Their annual budget the first year was over $700k to pay a full start up staff, rental, events, etc. Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:58:07 +0000 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment64063522 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment64063065 I believe that the lifeless nature of a pastor is a symptom of a much larger problem. I am not sure of the "Wal-mart" philosophy of church as you describe, however one of the elements that you discuss is one that I am working with 2 local pastors to actually execute. We are discussing how to utilize video and colaborative teaching to communicate unity in the BODY...not just the individual body.... Its wierd how this article took a turn into technology...o well- Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:54:29 +0000 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment64063065 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment64062489 ...not sure of your logic Jonathan. I would read the article again a little more slowly next time and think through things. Can video be affective...no...but it can be effective. Ask the Jesus Film people if it can be- obviously. The article was about the office of the pastor as defined in scripture and the weight thereon to make decisions rooted in scripture. Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:50:36 +0000 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment64062489 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment63916828 are you defining pastor Biblically then? A qualification of pastor is that he teaches... Wed, 24 Mar 2010 22:24:10 +0000 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment63916828 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment63910994 You know...Rick has an amazing way of bringing things into perspective.... This is the first time I can see this train of thought as being a viable option of reconciling my tensions- thanks for this reply Wed, 24 Mar 2010 21:47:16 +0000 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment63910994 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment63910786 thanks for the comments Tony- miss you guys. The conversation doesn't come from any angst towards technology. You know that I am a closet geek and want to leverage any new technology which allows me to be more effective and effecient. As long as we are in line with what the scriptures teach- its all good. The Coates need to head North soon- Wed, 24 Mar 2010 21:45:31 +0000 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment63910786 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment63903617 Seems like some good conversation. If anything, I believe that as pastors, we should have an apologetic of decisions just as we have an apologetic of our faith. We will make mistakes as we all desire to be relevant and continue to win more poeple for Jesus. I remember sitting in a meeting with a pastor who had planted the church many years before. I made a comment about how the youth and college didn't see him as the pastor because the church segregated for worship. He paused and then said, "the decision that we made 18 years ago may have been the wrong one." Mistakes are bad when they are fatal. Mistakes that are not fatal are opportunities to course correct and achieve greater kingdom works than before. The comments have been good that have been rooted in scripture. When we base our belief and convictions on feelings and experiences though we are ourselves defining relativism....the tool of satan and the enemy of the church. The Bible is absolutely true and must be the very roote and foundation of all of our decisions. My article only applied to what the Bible says, not what I feel or think..... Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:52:03 +0000 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment63903617 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment63879798 to question #1) my answer would be a question for you. What does God's word say? The very qualificaton for pastor (which would be a elder/overseer) would be one who teaches. It is a destinctive that seperates a "deacon" from "pastor/elder." My comment would be that Craig is wrong in this instance...or that the term pastor is simply used in the wrong context... 2)virtual community if faux community. the intention should be to connect in the virtual realm and move to the physical realm. the virtual should not be the destination. there is almost a metaphysical argument in here but the parelles of life/ spirit/ incarnation should be apparent. Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:38:43 +0000 http://gregatkinson.com/2010/03/24/guest-post-by-clayton-coates-flat-screen-pastor-conviction-or-convenience/#IDComment63879798