Now I believe there is great benefit to God's Word - that God promises the Spirit is carried with the Word, convicting us of sin and bringing God's Word of forgiveness in Christ to our sinful hearts. And Christ instituted the Lord's Supper and Baptism (which also carry God's Word)- so I see much benefit in receiving from Him these great gifts. But I don't see Mormon underwear anywhere in the Scriptures and I don't believe it carries any benefit at all - but rather is another strange adaptation that Joseph Smith made from Free Masonry.

So Donny Osmond seems to indicate that the underwear are just a reminder, while other sources say there are much greater benefits to the underwear. Couldn't just about anything could be a reminder? - a yellow wristband to remind one of the gold plates and the new/restored revelation, a Moroni necklace to remind one of their temple vows, or an "after all you can do" AAYCD acronym on a wall plaque. Or even a beautiful Mormon CTR necklace like this could be a reminder - http://www.ctr-ring.com/lds-book-store/colored-ct... . You can't even see underwear, and its always best when you can't even feel them. I am prone to believe that there is (in Mormon theology) some inherent spiritual benefit to the holy underwear.

One question I have is what about the other wives - wouldn't there be MANY heavenly mothers?? Isn't that the rationale behind polygamy as explained by Smith/Young? Hypothetically, everyone posting comments here on Mormon Coffee could have a differnent Heavenly Mother - then the Mormon Godhead would be expanded to include all those goddesses. The idea of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother as thought up by the Mormon prophets is confusing and non-Scriptural. Joseph Smith restored/converted to a religion of sorts, it just is not Christianity.

The Church is to turn us to Jesus in His Word, in Communion, in our Baptism. Communion shows us Jesus death on the cross for our sins. In Baptism we are united with Christ in his death and resurrection. The Chruch is Jesus' people. God's Spirit is present in these things showing us Jesus death for our sins, his free forgiveness freely offered, and calling us to come rest in Him. If Jesus is not the focus - if you are invovled in a self-improvement religion, eventually you will realize this scheme is not working (and here's a secret I found out, it's not working for anyone else there either!). Turn to Jesus and find forgiveness and rest. I do rely on my Church to turn me to Jesus, to show me Jesus - I need my Church because I am a sinner and I would definitely drift from Christ is I was doing it on my own. The Church is where I hear about Jesus for a desperate sinner like myself.

The role of the Church is to point us to Jesus Christ death on the cross for our sins, just as the Apostle Paul wrote that he focused exclusively on Christ crucified for our sins. The Church is that invisible fellowship of believers worldwide united in that simple faith in Jesus. Also, I believe their is definitely a role for the local Church fellowship to which a Christian belongs. Once again the role of the local Church is to point sinners, both believer and non-believers, to the forgiveness of sins found in Jesus death and resurrection. Sure - other good things flow from that, but without that focus on Jesus, without Him at the center? Well without Jesus at the Center - his death for our sins as the sole focus, it's worthless, and eventually it will drain you, it will become a burden, it's lifelessness will drive you to despair. When those who partcipate in Christless religion realize their self-improvement scheme isn't working, and they're still hearing the motivational seminars at "church," that's when the despair sets in. Followed by unbelief and rejection of this empty religion.

dickkopf,

There is a variety of opinion among Christians on the subject of losing faith/salvation. Many claim it is not possible, while others think it is. I believe it is possible to renounce your faith and leave it behind - I have seen people do it. It is not something that just happens as the result of a sin or sinful pattern, but comes from a life lacking repentance and finally a rejection of the faith they once believed.

Here are some of the Scriptures which indicate that we should be listening to God's voice in His Word, repenting, and constantly receiving His Gift of unmerited favor and forgiveness given to us in Jesus:

Luke 8:13 "Those on the rock are those who receive the Word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe a while but in time of testing they fall away.

Galatians 4:19 My dear children for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you, how I wish I could be with you now and change my tone, because I am perplexed about you.

1 Timothy 1:19-20 You may fight the good fight of faith, hold on to a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction.

1 Corinthians 10:12 So if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall.

We must alway hear the good news of Jesus death on the cross for our sins, how we fail to measure up and are sinful, and live a life of repentance before the Lord. Our hearts can become hardened if we will not listen to God's Word (the Scriptures) or hear it preached. It reveals our sin and brings us to faith. Jesus taught us to pray daily "forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." Our salvation is sure because we humbly rely on the gospel - Jesus mercy and grace:

1 Peter 1:3-5 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 5:10-11 And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast. To him be the power for ever and ever. Amen.

Phil 1:6 Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 1:8,9 He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

These two sets of Scripture appear to be contradictory, but we know both to be true. By faith we accept both God's promises and His warnings, and rely on God to hold us upright and push us on in faith. That's the difference between Peter and Judas, King Saul and King David. When confronted with our sin, listen to God's Word and promises and turn in faith and repentance to receive forgiveness. Do not harden your heart and turn away.

(Drawn from Life with God by Pastor Laurence L. White)

So truth is relative and determined by the listener? Each person can have their own truth? Is this what you are saying? I thought Mormonism claimed to be true? If you are subscribing to each person determines his own truth, the Book of Mormon and Mormonism truly has nothing to offer.

On the other hand - if there is truth, and Holy Scripture is the true revelation of God to sinful and fallen people - offering forgiveness through Jesus death on the cross and resurrection, then that changes everything.

If the prophets are Jesus' voice to the Church, actually to everyone in the world today, then the utmost reverence and sincere adherance to their words spoken should absolutely be the rule. To hear the voice of God speaking to us and turn away and reject even one thing this spokesperson says would be a rejection of God Himself. However, it is not us who don't believe these Mormon teachers are real prophets who discount and take-away the authority of their prophet who supposedly teaches in the place and stead of Jesus - no, it is not us - they do it themselves! Any troubling thing the prophets have spoken (and I agree, many things they have said are troubling) is discounted, voided of meaning, and cast aside.
Is it any wonder, when Mormons treat their own prophets whom they believe to be the voice of God, which such disrespect that they so easily cast aside God's Holy Scripture when it does not agree with their preconceptions?
As Christians we have the standard of God's Word given to us by God and preserved by God. Mormons have a pick-and-chose doctrine that does not even line up with their own statements on either the authority of Scripture nor the authority of the prophets.

There is a new archeological discovery in the news. It is puported to be an ancient metal book of possibly 1st century Christian origins! Since Mormon prophets are known for their gift of translation, I wonder if Monson has been consulted. If not, why not?

Perhaps this is, at long last, the chance to vindicate Joseph Smith and PROVE all of those long lost doctrines not found in Holy Scripture or the Book of Mormon for that matter. Secret temple ceremonies, eternal families, progression to godhood. Just let Monson get his hands on these hot little plates, and we may be amazed at what he finds. Or not. None of this "Mormon translation" business can be taken seriously (why not?? hmmmm). They said some of the plates were written in secret code - which makes me think these may not be Christian after all and some kind of mystery religion - which may be more akin to Mormonism after all!

Yes, we are evil. Jesus said "If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!
God does not sin, nor does He lie, He is not a man - His Word about us is trustworthy. Numbers 23:19 "God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?"
We are called by God to be perfect - this is true. How deos that work? Scripture reveals we are sinful; therefore not perfect. We are perfect because while we were STILL sinners Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8) "For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ." (Romans 5:17) Our righteousness, our perfection is a FREE gift, given to us through faith by Jesus death on the cross - He took our sins and atoned for them. We are credited with His righteousness, His perfection.