Great review, Sylvia!

I have to say, I actually liked this one, shockingly. It wasn't perfect, but it was good, and I agree, it feels like Show has hit its stride.

They packed a lot into this one, and some of it, like Christian being a demon, I didn't see coming. Samuel being shady and up to something, I saw coming from a mile away, as we all did. Also, how awesome was that Alpha Vamp? That actor really knocked it out of the park. I also had unusual amounts of love for Castiel this episode. I'm usually kind of indifferent to him, but something about his part in this one, and the way it was played, really worked for me.

The beginning scene, with the angel probing and all was hard to watch, but effectively played. I was also intrigued by the rope issue. If Sam got loose so easily once he decided he wasn't playing along anymore, then he could have gotten loose any time he wanted to. Meaning that he sat there and allowed them to do those things to him, and I like that he didn't just shrug himself free once they were done. He asked, nearly begged, to be untied, trying to make it Dean's decision, and only took matters into his own hands when Dean wouldn't listen.

I'm with Veronica here though. I do not like Dean's attitude about any of this. As Veronica pointed out, Dean was more than happy to work with (and for) Crowley when it suited his goals. But now, with Sam's soul on the line, he's balking at it? What gives? If he is that angry with Sam, he needs to walk away for a little while. If he's not that angry with Sam, then he needs to get on board with helping his brother. I understand that Dean is hurt, and betrayed, by Sam allowing him to be turned, and those are completely valid feelings. But I also think that Dean is taking out a lot of other frustrations on Sam, such as losing Lisa, and that's not Sam's fault.

It's a funny place to be, because on one hand, I feel Dean's frustration and hurt. He's suffered this past year without his brother, and he's hurt that Sam didn't tell him right away that he was back. Again, totally valid feelings. He's upset that he's lost Lisa and his little family that he was building. Also valid feelings. He's frustrated that he's gotten dumped into this mess, and that he's got to do something that goes against his instincts (in turning the alphas over to Crowley), which is also completely valid. And obviously he's still very upset by the vampire incident, and he has every right to be furious about that.

But in choosing to express those completely valid feelings by treating Sam like something that crawled out from under a rock, and by bitching about working with Crowley to save Sam's soul, he's completely undermining the sympathy I want to have for his position. It sucks. It really does. Everything that's happened to him this season has sucked, pretty much across the board. But I hate to break it to him, he's not the only one suffering. He's not the only one who's having a sucky time of it, and he's not the only one struggling. And I really hate this condescending, above it all air I got from him at the end of this episode.

I'm hoping it was just a writing issue in this episode. I'm not very fond of these writers as a rule, those this time they did manage to pull everything off pretty well. I don't think Dean should instantly get over all of this; none of them should. But I would really love to hear a little more "we" and "us" from him, and a little less "I" and "me". I definitely prefer Sam, but I like things best when I love both of the brothers.

ETA: I completely agree with the lighting and the pretty in this one. Everyone looked marvelous.

Oh dear, I'm afraid I am that predictable when it comes to Show, and their treatment of Sam.

It's not that I don't understand why or how Dean got to that point. I do, and I don't blame him for any of the emotions that led him there. I just completely, utterly disagree with his choice to vent his feelings in a physical manner against his brother. It is in character for him at this point, but that doesn't make it right either. Then the fact that he took it to the extreme he did, that pushed the whole mess firmly into the inexcusable department. Speaking solely for myself, there's no reason or excuse out there that's going to cover what he did. Does that mean I hate him? No, absolutely not. It doesn't mean I think it's unforgivable either. But if he keeps acting like Sam is definitely a monster, and treating him accordingly while leaving no room for the possibility that it really IS Sam, then I'm going to have some very serious issues with Dean.

I sure hope they did it on purpose. They had to have noticed it at the time. But Sam is a very effective loomer on his own, he doesn't need to stand on something, even if it's Dean he's looming over.

"He decides to incapacitate him and get him somewhere until he can find out the truth. He punches him to do so. And then he loses it, and when he loses it he's not hitting Sam, he is hitting the monster who has taken his brother from him. I think if he had still had the knife in his hand at that point, Sam would be dead. He had convinced himself once again this was a monster he was facing not Sam. "

I like your Impala comparison a lot better. I think it fits a lot better, to be honest.

I have problems with the whole incapacitation thing too. I've heard that offered as a reason/excuse more than once since Friday. Even if Dean had just hit Sam hard enough to knock him out and left it with that, he's still leaving little room for error if that IS Sam. They were both knocked out by Veritas, and now he'd going to give Sam another knock out punch? Really not a good idea. Then he took it to the extreme he did, and if that really is Sam, he could have easily killed him, or left him permanently damaged, without needing the knife at all.

The second thing is that Dean taking his anger out on Sam by hitting him, even when he knows Sam is really Sam, is canon. And everything about this scene, from the long, tense pause between when Dean turned back to Sam after he put the knife down, to the look on his face when he threw the first punch, his body language, everything matched the other times we've seen Dean lose his temper and lash out, both at Sam and the Impala.

ETA: I also don't like the line of thinking, if I'm taking all of this the way it was meant, that Dean being dead inside and damaged equals his actions being reasonable, while Sam (assuming it is Sam) being dead inside and damaged somehow equals deserving that kind of treatment. I'm hoping I've gotten a wire or two crossed between what you meant and what I'm seeing on that.

"Any posts saying what Dean did is wrong or was harsh, I would really love to know what's their order in the sibling list in real-life."

I'm curious about how you think that relates to what Dean did, and whether it's wrong or not. It doesn't matter what place you fall into in your family. It's not a matter of relating, or not relating, to Dean.

His feelings, his anger and rage, that is both totally justified and understandable. Whether you're an older sibling, younger, middle or only child, I think it's clear that he had very good reasons for feeling the way he did and most likely still does.

Those feelings, legitimate though they definitely were, did not give him the right to do what he did. In choosing to use his fists to express his anger, and in choosing to take things as far as he did, that is where he went wrong. That's on him, nobody else. It was an unacceptable way to express his rage, no matter how much right he had to the emotion, and again, I can't see what bearing a person's place in their family order has on this issue.

I also realize that we, and Dean, don't know if what Sam said at the end was the truth or not. He's been doing a lot of lying lately, and we know he has. That still doesn't change my feelings on the brutality of what Dean did. That wasn't an attempt to eliminate a threat. It was uncontrolled rage, pure and simple. He lost his temper in a very spectacular, in character (unfortunately) way. If what Sam said turns out to be true, I seriously hope Dean recognizes the horrible thing he did, in responding to an expressed desire for help with a vicious beating.

"But more importantly, Dean lashing out that way, with punches, shows that Dean isn’t perfect, isn’t the flawless young god some episodes would paint him as. No, it shows Dean as being perfectly human, with his own brand of kryptonite that answers to the name of Sam."

I agree with this completely. The problem is, too much of the audience, or at least the audience with an online presence, doesn't seem to get that point at all. They cheered it on. Sam deserved it, they say, he had it coming. They don't see it as a flaw in Dean's character, a flaw that proves his as human as anyone else. They see it as righteous and awesome. Unless Show gives us clear indication that someone inside the narrative (Bobby? Castiel? I don't really care who) sees this incident for what it really is, I think that point is irretrievably lost, having long since sailed over the heads of too many people.

"The only thing I’m missing here is the hurt/comfort scene that will surely follow: plastic bags of ice, a stiff shot of whiskey or two, plumped pillows, about a handful of aspirin, and some TV on without a whole lot of conversation."

Based on the promos for next week, I wouldn't hold your breath on that scene coming, Sylvia. I actually wouldn't hold your breath on Dean even acknowledging that what he did was out of line, or being all that concerned about Sam. But that could just be the promo monkeys messing with us again. They do so love to do that. I'm going to hope that's all it is, at least.

ETA: I also have issues with Dean allowing Lisa to have that conversation with him when he knew that the curse worked over the phone. He knew that she would be forced to tell him the truth, things she might not really want to say. I know he tried to get her to have the conversation at another time, but when she refused, I think he should have at least told her about the curse. The fact that he didn't felt like he was taking advantage of the situation, which doesn't feel right.

Hi Sylvia! I have to say, I enjoyed this one even more than usual. It made me think.

Getting the shallow stuff out of the way up front, both of the guys looked awesome this week, and I totally agree that this season so far, at least in most of the episodes (I'm looking at you 6x04) has very much given Jared a chance to show his talent at his craft. I've seen more praise for his acting this season than I've ever seen before, and he deserves it. Sure, he's not perfect; nobody is. But he's proving that he's damned good at what he does. Sometimes I wish I had an audience with the people in charge so I could demand that they admit that their show would have been rubbish if they hadn't lucked out in terms of chemistry and acting ability with their casting. I was also amused by the staging in some of those shots, particularly that first screencap you have up. Like Sam needs any help looming over people.

I said last week that this was Show's last chance with me. I still mean it, but unfortunately they kind of left us hanging on this one. To fully process the ending of this episode, I think I have to at least watch the first part of the next one. I need to see what, if any, fallout there is, and how Dean handles it.

And now to that ending. Unacceptable. Inexcusable. Totally unjustifiable. End of story. Dean has a history of lashing out at Sam with his fists when he gets angry, and he doesn't seem to think there's anything wrong with it, which is even more bothersome. We've seen this scenario at least twice before; Dean gets mad at Sam, Dean punches Sam, Sam doesn't fight back. Before someone chimes in to say "but that's how guys are!" No. At least, not all guys. I grew up surrounded by them. Brothers, friends, friends of brothers, cousins, you name it. And I've never once seen them come to actual blows with each other. I've seen them get angry, furious even, but there weren't any punches thrown. Wrestling? Sure. Name calling? Absolutely. But nothing even remotely approaching what we see with Sam and Dean. The only time physical violence came into play was with an outsider, in response to a threat or insult. Not with each other.

Obviously part of this is down to Sam and Dean's raising and lifestyle. When you live with violence, you become accustomed to it, and I get that as much as someone who hasn't been raised around excessive violence can. But that doesn't excuse it.

I think someof my issues with this scene are fandom related. Sam was berated in early S4 for not being sympathetic enough to what Dean had been through. Then he got thoroughly raked over the coals for the fight at the end of When the Levee Breaks, which to a large extent, he deserved for the choking thing. Now Sam is the one who went to Hell (well, the Cage, but for all we know that's like Hell x 100; though knowing this show, since it's Sam who went there, it'll be no big deal) to help stop the apocalypse that he and Dean both started, and he's clearly broken and suffering and so far all he's gotten from Dean, aside from that one hug, is anger, ranting, and distrust (even though he later earned that distrust, I'm talking about from the beginning). Now he's gotten a brutal beating to boot.

I don't blame Dean for being angry. He should have been angry, seriously, extremely, horribly angry. That anger is completely understandable and justified. I don't blame him for wanting to let his fists fly, for that desire to vent his rage in a physical way. I do blame him for using his brother as a human punching bag. I do blame him for not stopping until Sam was unconscious. I do blame him for beating an unresisting opponent to that extent. Dean had every right to the anger that led him to that point, every right you could ask for. But he had NO right to do what he did. And to be quite honest, the fact that I see people excusing it, handwaving it, and flat out ignoring it the way that I have and am, almost makes me physically ill.

"I've had this sick feeling that my favorite show has gone off the rails and really ISN'T headed in a definable direction, or if it is, just not one I want to travel in. "

I have that exact same feeling. :(

Maybe we're wrong? I don't feel like that's likely, but it's still possible.

"Unfortunately they seem to have installed him this season in the mode of I must save my brother from whatever he has become, I need to fix him and get my Sammy back."

I have to say, that's not the vibe I've gotten from Dean at all. He was angry with Sam for not telling him that Sam was back, which he should have been. Ever since then the impression I've gotten, with the phone call to Bobby and everything else, is suspicion and distrust. As though his first thought is to find out what's wrong with Sam and how to fix it because it's dangerous, and secondly because Sam is his brother. And if Dean has no purpose besides being Sam's keeper, then I guess Sam has no purpose at all, because he's been far, FAR less developed and featured this season than Dean has been. Dean has a family, and had a normal life, and a lot of very different, new things happen to him this past year, and we're seeing that difference in him and the reasons for it. That's a hell of a lot more than can be said for Sam. He's different, sure. But we're completely in the dark, and likely to remain that way, about WHY he's different. I'd switch their storylines in a heartbeat, if it meant we got to see as much of what makes Sam tick as we've seen of Dean, even in just these 5 episodes.

I completely agree with the last two sentences of your post, Sylvia. It's beyond old that Dean never makes the wrong choice in a bad situation. It's weakened his character, and I still feel like they've forced Sam to be even worse to better highlight Dean's goodness. I hate it. And I'm beginning to suspect that the writers don't intend to ever give Dean a kryptonite.