en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/758217 Comments by ubuntu19 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/south-park-off-the-hook__trashed/#IDComment70964922 I think what people like most about south park is that they are not afraid to cross the boundaries that a lot of society likes to try to constrain us to. I don’t think that its that big of a deal because they make fun of EVERYONE and EVERYTHING, but I can see from their point of view that they would be mad. Think about it-they don’t watch south park, im sure they just saw a clip from the internet and got upset about it. They probably don’t understand what south park is all about-it was like the class where we looked at thing from another perspective. Its all about the eye of the beholder. Tue, 27 Apr 2010 23:19:41 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/south-park-off-the-hook__trashed/#IDComment70964922 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-people-who-can-only-afford-hard-work__trashed/#IDComment70964307 I think that immigrants need to be legal for some reasons, but other reasons make that harder and unrealistic. Hard work is almost always going to be involved in anything that people do, especially when you are working from the bottom and trying to move up. I do agree with some of these posts that its not necessarily fair for people who have worked hard to get somewhere to pay for people who maybe have slacked off because they know they can live off others. But this is not always the case, sometimes people work very hard, and the world just doesn’t shift in their favor. I think that people that work hard are deserving, its just the slackers I have a problem with. Tue, 27 Apr 2010 23:17:22 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-people-who-can-only-afford-hard-work__trashed/#IDComment70964307 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-health-care__trashed/#IDComment70958697 Here is my personal problem with the Obama administration and this new health care reform policy that has happened. I am not completely educated about the policy-partially because they wont let people know what is in it- but his next move is what we talked about today, make everyone here citizens. Has anyone really thought about what this means? Not only will it create a rush for our boarders, but it means we (tax payers) will be paying for these immigrants to have health care, which means even more money is being taken from us and them! Most people that come here seem to be coming here to get away from something in their own country, or they would just stay in their homeland where their family is. Perhaps something awful is happening, or maybe they just believe that they can have a better life and will have more opportunities if they move to America. Either way most people coming here are not in great financial situations, and will not be able to pay substantial enough taxes to cover to cost for the US to provide them all with health care. This is the problem with this sequence of events. However, I could never look at a human being and tell them that they can’t be taken care of because they don’t have health insurance, and that they must stay sick. SO here is the problem, and it ties back into the issues we discussed in class today. Is there a solution? Maybe there is just simply no way to fix all of these problems because when you fix one it seems to make another problem worse. In the end everyone deserves to be healthy and happy and to be able to be taken care of by a doctor if need be, but I don’t think the way that people are going about it is helpful at all. I don’t have a solution, and the is the humility that Sam was talking about today in class. I know that I don’t have the solution, but at the same time I know that what is happening now is not the answer. In the end it all comes down to the fact that we are all humans, and I can’t imagine denying people healthcare or medical help when they need it just because of money, and at the same time its all about money. Being that I am coming out of college and realizing I have to pay healthcare that I won’t even see immediately it does make me feel some kind of way about that fact that I am going to have to pay even more to cover them. It is a hard struggle. Tue, 27 Apr 2010 22:58:11 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-health-care__trashed/#IDComment70958697 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/letter-from-an-inmate__trashed/#IDComment69792252 This really makes you second guess things doesn’t it? I mean, here are people that have done something so horrible they are thought of as the evil-doers of society, and then someone writes something like this-so real and so intelligent. You can see that they have probably changed and grown as a persona and you wonder if they truly should be behind bars. And then you remember what they did and you can’t possibly believe that you are saying that. It’s a hard place. I never thought of compassion as something that would be so present in a prison, but the way he puts it, it makes perfect sense. Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:14:19 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/letter-from-an-inmate__trashed/#IDComment69792252 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/300000-whats-it-mean-to-us__trashed/#IDComment69790695 I think that something like this is completely horrible and devastating-but that you are right, people seem to move on. This has something to do with the “us and them” phenomenon that has happened between countries. We are not all humans- not simply people. But we are people with an identity that seems to root in where we are from. And when something happens to them-we feel badly because we know those were humans, but people seem to also think: that god it wasn’t us. This is terrible and one of the many points that I wish people could understand. We are not US and THEM, those lines are invisible-we are all humanity and you are right, we should all be effected by anything that happens. Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:08:08 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/300000-whats-it-mean-to-us__trashed/#IDComment69790695 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/christian-invaders-the-turnaround__trashed/#IDComment69789624 My Mom has always been really big on trying to understand. She has read a lot of books about the Muslim faith and has always tried to get me to see things from another perspective. As much as she has done to try and get me to understand, this one lecture made everything make more sense. As I sat there it made perfect sense to me why these people think what they are doing was right. From my family I only ever got the “well see if from their perspective, they think they are right”… but I never knew WHY they thought they were right. This really put it into perspective. Of course I would fight and stand up for myself and my family if I thought people were coming to my country to take away our resources and kill us because of our religion, itsn’t that kind of what some people in America think they are doing in some respect? We think they hate us because we are “Americanized” and we are Christians, just like they think we are fighting them because we want to take their oil and because they are Muslim. I hope that people truly understood the point of this lecture. I think some people that seem angry might have not truly understood what you were trying to do as a teacher. You were educating us on understanding ethnocentrism and how it works for other people as well. Just how we revolve around our culture, they revolve around theirs. I think people saying this is stupid and wrong aren’t getting the point. Sam is not picking on Christians either, the evidence is there! I am a Christian, but even I can admit that there are some people out there who really do believe this is a Christian war in they own mind, and some of them are or were running this country- can you understand why that would be scary to the Muslim people we are fighting against?! Another good point htat was made was those about the youtube videos. How we tend to send out on e-mail list serves all the good videos of the soldiers that are so amazing over there (which they are) and all of the good things that are happening. However, at the same time they are sending around all the bad things—all the people that don’t have the right mind set. One of the most important things that Sam said to help us understand is when we talking about how WE know that those are just a couple of assholes but that most everyone in the army is actually amazing….BUT THEY DON’T. people just need to open up to understand. Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:03:21 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/christian-invaders-the-turnaround__trashed/#IDComment69789624 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/this-is-totally-off-the-hook__trashed/#IDComment66491268 This is definitely sick-about you much be a psychopath if you think that raping women is a fun way to spend your time. I understand why some say that you can’t control it and blah, blah… but what has society come to that people want to pretend to rape people over and over-men or women. I think that society always has some sick fascination with things that are just awful. Entertainment since entertainment was invented had always been about sex and violence, but this has to be crossing some kind of line right? This is just upsetting that people think this would ever be something they should make. I feel like people are punished for less-I am glad to see there are other people enraged by this. Thu, 8 Apr 2010 00:55:51 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/this-is-totally-off-the-hook__trashed/#IDComment66491268 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/i-really-want-to-know-also__trashed/#IDComment66490053 This is obviously just a personal opinion, but there are a lot of things that have been said this semester that have changed how I see and interact with people. I think there are a few reasons that I have had such an open mind about what was being taught in this class and really been able to embrace what has been said. The first is that I am a senior and that possibly I am a little more mature then some of the freshman/sophomores taking this class. Before you freak out and condemn me to being one of “those” seniors, I say this only because everyone knows that you change a lot throughout college and getting to the end of college I have changed, a lot. I have experienced a lot of different things and they have shaped a lot of who I am. Another reason is because I took this class because I was actually interested in the topic, not because I heard that it is an easy elective. I came to this class wanting to learn about race, I spent 6 months living in South Africa, a country riddled with racial problems since the end of the apartheid. After seeing first hand and even experiencing racial inequality at its worst I came back as a white person no longer in the awakening/pre-awakening stages. Taking this class was my effort to help close the gap of racial inequality it was my first step. I have learned a LOT from this class. It has given me the confidence to not only speak out against injustice that I see, but change my ways of thinking. I really don’t know how to describe the impact that this class has had on my life—but I know that when I skype with my friends that still lie in SA, the people of color from SA tend to agree with a lot of what Sam says. People need to open their eyes, what he is giving us here is a way to change the world and slow and eventually stop all the hate—and yet it will continue because people are too stupid to see it. This can’t just be chalked up to mediocre class, maybe it wasn’t your personal favorite, but did you ever think that maybe this is because it hurt to hear some of what he was saying? Instead of embracing it you brushed it off as just another authority figure trying to ruin your life? Of course there are going to be some things that I question when I hear, or even after the reflection process I don’t agree with, but to say you have not learned anything means you either have not been paying attention or you are purely ignorant. Thu, 8 Apr 2010 00:45:46 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/i-really-want-to-know-also__trashed/#IDComment66490053 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/how-can-we-ever-win__trashed/#IDComment65190545 I think that Sam's point was just to put examples of people in different stages (jesse jackson) for us to better understand what he was saying. As far as the LL Bean thing, I do see what he is saying about that. If you don't like those pictures because you think they are stupid then you are still in the immersion stage. From this comment, it seems like you aren't really in this because you posed the questions "what are they supposed to do". Which is where i stand with this as well as the PSU brochures. what are they supposed to do? make the thing all white people to reflect what campus is actually like? Then they would get in trouble by groups saying that they are racist for not putting more races in the brochures. It is hard to take an accurate snap shot of some place like PSU that is so large. If people were really interested in the school and race really mattered to them-they would most likely look up statistics-not let themselves be fooled by the brochure pictures. Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:16:23 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/how-can-we-ever-win__trashed/#IDComment65190545 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/what-about-multiracial-people__trashed/#IDComment65189750 I think it is hard to identify yourself and was or another because whichever group you choose might not fully accept the decision. BUT its not about them, you know how you feel and from your comment here is seems that you identify more with your latino/hipanic heritage. I think that you are only basing any whiteness on the fact that people sometimes "mistake" you for white because you have light skin. However as we saw from pictures in class people mistake people for other races all the time, there is no TRUE way to identify other races. Even if you had darker skin, someone would always think you belonged to another group. So i think the best way to handle it is to identify yourself with the culture YOU think you fit into better and correct people if they get it wrong--don't get confused because people mistake your background. Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:10:12 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/what-about-multiracial-people__trashed/#IDComment65189750 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment65189092 white people want to be tan, and black and brown people want to be lighter skinned-now obviously this doesn't apply to everyone but being white i know how much money i have seen friends pay to get the chance to be tanner, and watching the video the first half is about people wanting to be lighter skinned. So what does this all really mean? The doll experiment was very sad. Not that they should always pick the doll that is obviously trying to identify with their race, but that they said the baby of color was bad, while the white baby was good? what is that really about? It just makes you think about how much children pay attention to the world around them without us even knowing. They truly are like little sponges--they pick up on the undertones of the movies and media. they can see from peoples actions that they dont quite have all the advantages of a white person. that is awful to me. When you are a child you are at your purist form, and THESE KIDS can see the flaws in our society and when asked which doll is the good doll-they don't try and cover up what they learn from watching us as people. If you are someone who never believed that the media influences people in ways that we cant control and sometimes don't notice; here is your proof that its true. Maybe it isn't fair to blame all of it on the media. A lot of it probably come from people that surround the kids. Maybe the parents or older siblings have bad experiences and share them when they get home and the kids hear people they look up to talking about such things. It is really hard for me to understand. Also, when it comes to playing with the dolls, maybe a majority of them picked white dolls because that is what they are used to seeing. Lets be honest, most dolls made in America are white, or there are at least a lot more white dolls at this point. Maybe this is just because this is what they are used to seeing in their school and at their friends houses and so they are picking to doll that looks the most like a doll to them. The disturbing point comes when they ask the question "which is the good/bad doll?" because here is when we can see that this is not simply a color blind child-but that this kid IS seeing color. and not only that they can identify both dolls as different races and as one being better than the other. it is just sad to me to think that these kids may think that about themselves too. self hate is destructive. Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:05:14 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment65189092 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/what-to-do-about-white-guilt__trashed/#IDComment63900198 Personally i don't think the books ever taught me about white guilt-if anything changing the books would teach me about it. Maybe if we learned it from a younger age we would be better adapt to cope with the guilt? understand it? I think white guilt doesnt come until you identify with the fact that you are white, there is such a thing of race in the world, and that you have an advantage. that is when it becomes hard. When I lived in africa for 6 months, there was not just white guilt, there was American guilt. Sometimes it was almost too much to cope with and made me just simply cry. If you want to understand white guilt, for me-its kind of like going into the townships in Africa and seeing the starving sick chidren, and then realizing that maybe you don't have it do bad.... maybe things aren't as bad as they COULD be. Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:24:40 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/what-to-do-about-white-guilt__trashed/#IDComment63900198 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/whats-the-big-deal-with-periods__trashed/#IDComment63899693 I do agree with what you are saying. I am happy that I have a period and am fortunate enough to be able to have the possibility of children. However, in society it IS kept secret between men and women, unless its your significant other, men and women don't share these personal details. When men rudely ask "is it that time of the month" when you are acting cranky-they never expect or want to hear an actual honest response. BUT with my girl friends...totally a topic of conversation. We make up names for it, make sure we announce when its here and generally don't mind talking about "it" and how annoying "it" is, how late, how early...any of it. I think people were just so shocked to hear Same discuss it like this because the reality is that WE as a society dont talk about it--and so when one person does, we feel strange. Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:20:32 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/whats-the-big-deal-with-periods__trashed/#IDComment63899693 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/what-are-all-of-you-thinking-about-asians__trashed/#IDComment63899000 Asians are somewhat "skipped" over if you will by Sam-but at the same time his wife has a good point in her book that the history in this country has been mostly always about blacks and whites, and therefore that is what is focused on. Now where do asians fit into all of this? I am in a major where there are many Asians, from Asia. I am in a science major and they tend to have no necessarily more Asians then business, as we learned in call, but a higher concentration because in general there are a lot less science majors in the world then there are business majors. Lots of Asian science majors a lot of times means they go to graduate school and become TA's for some of the classes. I must admit that it is hard to learn about such hard topics from people who don't speak english very well. Now that being said I have seen some terrible what can only be defined as racism that comes out of pure frustration of the class- but comes out as a personal attack on someones culture. i have had to drop 2 calsses late drop because the teachers (TAs) in both cases were from Asia and I could not understand them or the material and was therefore doing badly in the class, when i took the class with an english speaking professor-i got an A. Now there are many things looking back on that experience that can be said. #1- Them not being good teachers, was not necessarily because they were ASIAN. There is no reasons for people to take away from this that i dislike asians, i just dont think they were never good teachers ( partially because of lack of english speaking abilities). #2- i obviously tried to use some kind of stereotype when signing up for the class again because I picked out teachers who did not SOUND like they had asian names. THIS IS AWFUL. I am not saying that what i did was good at all. Its hard to think about how i can see something i did that was racist with out me even thinking it was at the time. Now, i have seen much worse. I have seen people at this school openly discrimination against asians, lumping asians and asian-americans together. making fun of them and just taking out their frustration with individual people on the WHOLE RACE. Isn’t that what happens a lot? White people do it, people of color do it… You have one bad experience with an INDIVIDUAL and you lump it all together in a desperate attempt to give your frustration an outlet. Yet, isn’t the key, the individual. I think until we can learn to accept all people as individuals we will never be able to sit at the “Race table” and seriously think we have gotten past all of it…just an opinion. Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:14:39 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/what-are-all-of-you-thinking-about-asians__trashed/#IDComment63899000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/what-happens-to-multiracial-people__trashed/#IDComment62646137 Just a personal opinion is that a lot of people of mixed race seem to mostly identify themselves with the minority group. If people are half black half white, they seem to be more likely to identify with begin black, now obviously there are exceptions to this. Mixed race people are stuck in a hard place because they try to identify with one group or the other and are sometimes shut down by both " you arent______" fill in the blank. I have a friend that is half black/white and she has trouble because she identifies with black culture, but when people meet her parents sometimes their response is " you aren't really black?" BUT what makes you "black" and why is she not considered black? Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:13:42 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/what-happens-to-multiracial-people__trashed/#IDComment62646137 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/does-this-rudeness-thing-cut-both-ways__trashed/#IDComment62645721 maybe it has to do with what Sam was saying-white people are scared. I know that I am white and I would never be rude to a person of color for fear of being called a racist. So when someone that is white does stand up and say something people make a big deal out of it- not to mention it is usually crude and totally inappropriate. but when a person of color says it the white people don't have the courage to stand up and say something to them- its all about guilt and being scared. Even if the comments have NOTHING to do with race, these racial tensions are always creating undertones. As sam also said in class- these people would never say these comments out loud to anyone face. Maybe that is another reason so many bad comments came out of white people- they could do it anonymously. Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:10:12 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/does-this-rudeness-thing-cut-both-ways__trashed/#IDComment62645721 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/prom-or-no-prom-just-dont-let-the-queer-students-dance-together__trashed/#IDComment62644828 GET OVER IT! we live in a world where you can love who you choose, and what could be better than that. People have always said throughout history that "you can't help who you fall in love with" so why is this any different. High school is hard enough as it is, and adults like those on the school board in this case are just putting yet another target on this girls back. I think she shouldn't have had to ask to bring her girlfriend at all. I would be so bold as to say that most people in America today under 50yrs are accepting of gay/esbian couples, not this is not to say that all are, or that these people that are accepting always LIKE the idea, but non the less they do accept it-we learned in class it is not accepted in a lot of corporate America. When i asked my roommates what they though about this, there was no one that thought this was fair. They were disgusted by the fact that this is still happening-- I think that there are a lot of people out there that are so accepting, that they can sometimes forget that LGBT people are still fighting for their rights. Accepting them is definitely a great step, but people need to help them, support them. Especially people like this girl that are just trying to live their life- I don't believe that this girl meant to cause all this drama, but that since this happened to her people show should their support and prove to the school that they were wrong. I also think that this is pointing out the girl as being a terrible person because they are punishing the whole school for something that isnt even wrong. I understand that maybe mississippi ( or this part of the state) is not as accepting or Gay/lesbians but if anything they should have told her no, and trusted her to abide by the rules, there was no reason to cancel the entire prom because of one person. I think that is just hurts and confuses me that people can be so cruel to such a young girl. They made sure to make an example out of her and I think that is nothing but rude. I can only hope that people at her school are mad at the school and not at this girl. I hope that they support that she tried to do the right thing. I can't imagine what this girl must be feeling right now, but hopefully now that this is a huge news story she knows that people do support her and this will give her the confidence she need to stay strong. Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:02:32 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/prom-or-no-prom-just-dont-let-the-queer-students-dance-together__trashed/#IDComment62644828 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/when-do-we-do-or-say-something__trashed/#IDComment59663864 I think that I would hope that is someone was being treated that cruelly people would know they should say something. There are some situations that people should maybe keep to themselves, but not one like this. I think that there are other factors to that story, I think that it depends on where in the US it was filmed, people in different regions of the US are very different. I agree with the person about that says that a lot of time when people are not quite so politically correct and are honest it shows almost that they don't really care about race, which sounds like an odd concept, but its that really what we want-people to no longer SEE race? Thu, 4 Mar 2010 01:45:42 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/when-do-we-do-or-say-something__trashed/#IDComment59663864 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/a-long-long-way-indeed__trashed/#IDComment59662776 After spending 6 months in SA, it is easy to see that although we have a long way to go still, things are much improved. For them the apartheid ended not even 20 years ago, and you are reminded of that every day when you walk down the street, they have made progress, but not nearly as much as we have made here. It takes time. If people (slave owners) from back in the day were to come here now, they would be VERY confused. People that we basically worship, celebrities, athletes, etc. are people of all races, and that was never the case before. I know that we need to continue this progress, but I am just happy people realize we have made some. Thu, 4 Mar 2010 01:35:24 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/a-long-long-way-indeed__trashed/#IDComment59662776 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/whats-with-the-theme-parties__trashed/#IDComment59661987 I don’t think that you can say that theme parties only apply to white people, I have known plenty of people of color to participate in them as well, and even do “preppy parties” that are meant to poke fun at white people. Regardless is white people statistically take part in more theme parties than do people of other races that doesn’t mean they are all racially motivated. Some are holidays, or winter themed, beach, party for example, I assume that possibly “ghetto” themed parties may be seen as race-related in some way because people dress as what they consider stereotypical ghetto. I don’t think that people mean of any of these themes to be about race, more about culture. It can sometimes be fun to dress and up and play another role, something different from our other day lives. I don’t believe that people do this with the intention on put down people of another race. Another factor, especially on this campus, might be that a majority of theme parties are thrown by people in greek life here at PSU. At PSU there is a large majority of white greek-life on the campus, therefore they are the ones participating in these parties that you see. Regardless of greek life-most of PSU is white in general so most of the parties you see are probably thrown by white people, that does mean other places people of other races throw them at other schools. Theme parties are meant to be fun, they are meant to let you dress up and escape from your comfort zone. I don’t think that they are not meant to be offensive, I know that no theme party I have ever attended and participated in had any racist intentions. It is hard because I feel that when people step outside their normal dress and attire and play “dress-up” someone is always going to offended. In our society today racism has become such an issue that people always assume that it is there. Another reason I DO think it is more about lifestyles and culture than race is because there are “white trash” parties also. If anything this may be the most racist party and most of the people participating in it are white. I can understand why this might be offensive, but most of these parties are not picking on any one race more than the other. I think the reason that people have these parties is because they can be a lot of FUN. If you don’t like theme parties or understand them then you don’t have to participate in them, but I think that you are taking this too seriously-maybe try throwing your own theme party ( with a tasteful theme-I do agree some can go too far) and see how much fun you have. Thu, 4 Mar 2010 01:27:18 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/whats-with-the-theme-parties__trashed/#IDComment59661987