en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/1112316 Comments by samsmith119 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action__trashed/#IDComment85440739 I meant dialoguing with you. Thu, 8 Jul 2010 04:01:11 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action__trashed/#IDComment85440739 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action__trashed/#IDComment85440540 The issue of AA in all its forms is like anything else I think, good and bad. It seems there is always the other side of the blade on any government programs or mandates. I did like the way Sam brought up nepotism and pointed out how "networking" is just another form of it. Shifting gears though, the ten commandments had me smiling. It reminded me about how people always think their baby is the cutest thing ever (even when it is so ugly the dog is afraid of it) or how their child is so smart or there is No way my child would ever commit a crime....oh no not ever. But the harsh reality is most people are not all the special, good looking, or smart. Most of us are just average folks just like most everyone else. We want the same basic things, we think about the same stuff, we all think our babies are cute...but we are why there is an average. Those that do not fall into this category are the ones that change the world, I mean really change it in profound ways. Sure we each have a part in that but the notable ones are the above average (most of us being the average). But back to AA....Just like unions there is a time and place for every organization and system and when they are working as planned they work great, but when they dont work out even for a second, there is someone there to scream about how horrible it is and how wrong or unjust. Someone once told me that they are glad the world is not fair, because if it was and we all got what we deserved then we are screwed, since most of us do not deserve what we have. I worked my ass off for a long time from nothing, I did 95%+ and the other 5% were breaks in some way or another, but I will be the first to tell you I do not deserve what I have, far from it. If life was truely fair and just I would not be here typing this right now, and many others would not either. Is AA fair? No. Is being handicapped fair? No. Is being White fair? Nope. Is being a P of C fair? Nope and nope. But you know what, being born in the USA vs. Cambodia or Haiti isnt too damn fair either. Is paying a ton for school tax without having kids while the apartment dweller doesnt and sends 3 kids to school fair? No....but it Is right. Is there a solution? I have no idea, but I know that if we continue to strive to find one we will all become better people for it and maybe if we are good enough and do the right things for all people enough time we might actually deserve what we have for once. AA isnt about fair, it isnt about setting things right, and it isnt about hand outs or freebies or shifting the balance, its about trying to be better human beings to each other and about trying to think at least in a small way about others. We know what its doing and we know who is benefiting the most from it, but one day you all will be the person in charge of changing or modifying those things to be better and work smoother. Cheers everyone, it has been a pleasure dialoguing with out. Ding fries are done. Thu, 8 Jul 2010 04:00:24 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action__trashed/#IDComment85440540 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action__trashed/#IDComment85421637 See I think there is a significant difference between AA and nepotism. With AA you may not know anything about the individual what so ever, but with nepotism you do, you know what that persons work ethic is you know that since they know someone there they will not want to embarrass them so will do the best they can (mostly). With "networking" if I know joe blow for the last 10 years and a slot he is right for opens at my business of course I am going to call him. 1. I know him and have known him for a long time, I know what Im getting. 2. there is a connection already at the workplace so their is no new guy sillyness from either side of the fence, 3. if joe needs a job and I have know him all this time why wouldnt I give it to him if he can do the job, he may not be the best for it but he is enough, and thats good enough. Joe gets a job, I get a worker, we all go for beers after (he buys ;)) Thu, 8 Jul 2010 01:47:14 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-8-lesson-14-affirmative-action__trashed/#IDComment85421637 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-7-lesson-13-immigration__trashed/#IDComment84748624 I agree with you about Congo so a point. The dog should have been put down and ranking him higher than a human being was not only wrong it was insane. On the flip side, I hold no love for illegals. He should have been taken care of like any other human being and then sent home. As far as suing, he should never have been allowed to file a suit in the first place nor won any money as he was breaking the law when he was injured. As far as business making policy on immigration...ROFL show me 1 single facet of our nation that business does not run. They make sure things get deregulated (my electric bill tripled after deregulation---thanks a ton), they get policy changed so they can legally pay off politicians and call it Lobbying, they make the trade policy to suit them on who pays tariffs and who doesnt and what goods from what nations can come in and what sits and rots on a dock. Business runs it all. It always has, and it always will. I think I smell my coffee now ;) Sun, 4 Jul 2010 18:23:23 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-7-lesson-13-immigration__trashed/#IDComment84748624 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-7-lesson-13-immigration__trashed/#IDComment84745803 I am a firm believer in Immigration. I also believe in the law and process of doing it the right way. Here are some things I have thought about on the topic. 1. Legal Immigration is ridiculously over priced. How in gods name do you expect someone to be able to pay a few thousand dollars when they cant find work or are being paid on a lower economy that the US. I know how much it cost since I had to pay it for my wife in order to become a LPR (Legal Permanent Resident- ie Green card holder). 2. Stop going after the people coming over the boarder. If you had no food and a family wouldnt you do everything you could to feed them? I thought so. They need to seize business' that hire them. Those business' are exploiting them and making a bullshit excuse that they cant find anyone else to do the work, thats a crock. What they can't find is anyone to do it that cheap. If you can not stay in business by paying fair wages then you should not be in business, sell it and work for someone else. If the government takes the business and the assets connected to it (like they do with drug dealers), then no one will hire them. 3. If Mexico is serious about this issue then they can step up to the plate. Lets trade with Mexico....We will create legal work visa specifically for Mexican citizens. They are documented and they can work here in the US for up to 9 months a year. They pay taxes on the money they make here and tracking all that is done via the visa. In return for this Mexico allows US citizens to own owner occupied property and allows US citizens to get the same work visa we offer but in Mexico. 4. Make the filing fees for becoming a LPR or citizen reasonable. And make the work Visa cost nothing the first year but $50/year after that. Allow the fee to be taken right out of the paycheck (and they must be paid by payroll checks) for the following year. Immigration is a good thing. Change is a good thing. Evolution is a good thing. Someone told me once that they thought the reason Americans dont travel as much as Europeans is that in this country we have most other cultures already here, we just have to look. Illegal immigration only causes harm and ill will. I know it pisses me off beyond belief since we (my wife and I) did all the pain in the ass paperwork, interviews, fees etc. We lost her green card and it cost me almost another $600 for a replacement. Thats crazy. And thats not taking into account the bureaucratic bullshit that went along with those fees. I very much enjoyed seeing some of the stats on how immigration really has not changed. The idiot that was in Sweeden and complaining about mexicans not learning the host language cracked me up, but I see that shit all the time when I travel. Americans by and large as dumb asses when traveling. They are overly loud and very ethnocentric. Why in the world would you spend all the time and money to go traveling to another country to buy a big mac (WTF??). And they always assume no one understands them when they are talking shit about the people around them LOL. When I go to visit in Norway (no I dont speak Norwegian) I pick up on the language again pretty quickly. I also keep my mouth shut a lot and really only interject if they have switched to English. As a side note, you would not believe how much food you can eat when you dont talk LOL. When I go to the shops I do my best in Norwegian and I get the point across (since I only spend a few weeks every couple years there I have not tried to learn the language), most the time they will smile and switch to English. A lot of the time they are happy to get the chance to practice their English, but are very thankful of the courtesy of letting them switch not expecting it from them. I am very proud to be an American, but people, please tell your grandparents that when they go to Europe again tell people they are Canadian ;) I understand that some of us are linguistically challenged so to speak (in other words I am lucky I can speak 1 language) so it is unfair to think that this problem of having a stupid tongue only exists with Americans like me. When someone speaks another language and is trying to speak English with you, be patient, be respectful, and be thankful that they are making an effort. I know many people that English is not their first or even second language, and they speak it very well, but are very self conscious so people like the screaming idiot on youtube does not help things a bit. I would like to tell that guy that in the battle of illegal immigration, please do not try to help us we do not want you in our corner, and for the love of god switch to decaf. Ding fries are done. Sun, 4 Jul 2010 18:11:41 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-7-lesson-13-immigration__trashed/#IDComment84745803 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-7-lesson-12-multiculturalism-lgbt__trashed/#IDComment83123337 So what is Natural vs. Normal? If so many people are in the middle wouldn't that be the norm? Yet like so many things we allow a few that are screaming loudly to be the judges of normalcy and right/wrong, why do we continue to put up with this and allow them to roll over us? In so many ways we allow the few to rule and lord over the many. We see it in politics all the time. The old saying that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. We consistently act like sheep and let others tell us how our world will be shaped and run even when the true majority does not prescribe to it. Changing topic: I have a very dear friend of mine and his husband visiting right now and we watched the LGBT segment together. It was interesting to see what they thought about it over all and the discussion we all had during and after it. The statistical numbers are looking good in regard to people being more accepting. In regard to mixing LGBT and race relations language there was some very strong opinion on the term Partner. My friends husband did not like the term at all for what he is. He is not his partner. You get that in a law firm, a Dr.s office, a cop etc. But wife/husband denotes clearly what that person is to the other. The term Partner to them seemed a straight persons PC way of referring to them without accepting them for what they are, a "married" couple. In the Norwegian language there is a term for committed loving partners that are not married and it represents a persons relationship and Not their gender or sexual orientation. I think its high time we as a nation begin to practice a concept that we have said we follow but never really have....separation of church and state. A couple should be able to be bonded by clergy (married) or by the state (joined) so long as the end result is equal in its entirety. I asked my friends if they would accept the term civil union if that term was applied to all persons being joined by the state regardless of gender/SO. and that the term Married was used to denote the joining of a couple by clergy. They said that would be fantastic. It is not the term civil union that gets them pissed its what it represents, inequality and bigotry. It also shows that the nations is run and guided by the church and not by civil authority. Multiculturalism: Sam asked why not just accept the Chinese flag and why the tie to ours. Yes I sure do feel a certain way about that LOL. Its not the cloth, its what that cloth represents that I hold to. I hold to a set of ideals that in spirit drive me on to be better, but in practice can sometimes get hung up. The flag stands as a symbol of history, belief, convictions, vision and bonding. That is not to say others do not feel exactly the same way for their nations as I do for mine, I dont have any problem with that. I dont want the policy of business running my life when it comes to the belief sets. I do not want greed and back stabbing to become to norm everywhere. If you think you can't trust politicians, how do you feel about massive corp CEO's? Ya I thought so, so do you really want those people deciding everything and wiping away the things that give us focus in our beliefs? I can respect a thief that breaks into my house and steels some of my tings in order to feed his starving family. I may not be happy about it by any measure, but I can respect it. But I will be the first in line with a rope to hang the SOB CEO who steels out of greed for More. I know that sounds better in my head that on type but that the best way I can put it. Ding fries are done. Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:19:11 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-7-lesson-12-multiculturalism-lgbt__trashed/#IDComment83123337 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-7-lesson-12-multiculturalism-lgbt__trashed/#IDComment83120039 I have to agree on the topic of "Natural". The problem I see some people having is not the relationship part but that fact that they can not seem to separate the act of sex from the feelings of love. The act of love between same sex humans has been around for a very very long time, and openly accepted in its form (ie soldiers in many countries) That "special" bond that men form when grouped together has a certain level of love in it, that is not to say they are gay or that they are attracted to the same sex physically, but that they can love each other in a romantic way. On the flip side you can have sex without the emotional connection, as Sam was pointing out with men just wanting More sex. You can find this sort of distinction more in coupled persons who are in open sexual, but not emotional, relationships. They seem to be able to segregate their emotional love for their partner and the sexual desires and/or wants for another person. Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:53:31 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-7-lesson-12-multiculturalism-lgbt__trashed/#IDComment83120039 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-6-lesson-9-stages-of-racial-identity-people-of-color-stages-1-4__trashed/#IDComment81477255 I would like to see some data on race % for graduation and GPA levels. I wonder what that looks like at PSU? Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:06:56 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-6-lesson-9-stages-of-racial-identity-people-of-color-stages-1-4__trashed/#IDComment81477255 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-6-lesson-9-stages-of-racial-identity-people-of-color-stages-1-4__trashed/#IDComment81476500 Yes, dont blame the person blame the employer who most likely is paying them less. Look at PSU. How much do you think a math TA gets paid who is from China vs one that is white, no accent and is from Dallas? Who is to blame when a grad student gets here from a foreign country and finds out they have no time to practice or better their english and that they have to begin teaching right away, and have had little to no training, who should you be mad at? It is frustrating, and it is wrong of the university to do and I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts that they are paid very little compared to white TAs from the USA. There was no set standard on pay when my wife taught here and I dont imagine there is now either, and that just leaves the door Wide open for discrimination and racism to walk right in. If we cant make changes right here, then how are we going to make changes in the rest of the world? Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:02:09 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-6-lesson-9-stages-of-racial-identity-people-of-color-stages-1-4__trashed/#IDComment81476500 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-6-lesson-9-stages-of-racial-identity-people-of-color-stages-1-4__trashed/#IDComment81473151 Hmmmm, is it sexier for a black man to be bald or have some fro? On TV they are depicted as bald, muscled, and sexy, why is that? Where white guys mainly are not depicted as bald since that is not sexy for them. Someone told me the other day I had a jew fro, WTF is that? Seriously, I have never heard of that and I had to think a second if I should be offended by that or not. Since I still have no clue what it is then the jury is still out but I'm thinking it was not meant as a compliment. You are as beautiful as you feel you are....skin deep my ass, it goes soul deep and stays with you even when you're alone. Like Hitler and his little ideal of the master race the He didnt fit into either, the people that tell you what beauty is are selling you something they dont even buy. You tell a kid they are ugly or fat what color they are comes in second. Do you think a child sits there and thinks to themselves "I'm a black/white/asian fat kid" or do they just think "I'm a fat kid" or "I'm an ugly kid". Thats not skin deep in my book, thats just deep. But the white industry did start it in this country. And they told you fine black women that you needed to be whiter, well not you directly. They told your great grandmother and she believed it and told your grand mother who bought into it and so on, now there is its own industry telling you what shade of black to be or how small your eyes are to look and so on. Shit, show me the white girl that could ever look like barbie. Who comes up with this crap? I have 8 nieces and I have not nor will I ever get them pink anything, barbie or its like or any other BS product designed to tell her what she Isnt and what she needs to do to change to be pretty. I just get so pissed when I see crap like the doll experiments. What would happen if you put a doll shaped like an average normal person and an "industry" norm, and ask which is pretty and which is bad. Kids dont learn this by osmosis in the womb, we teach them this and reinforce this. If you go on thinking you are not pretty then what other things do you think you are lacking in. All I can think is how cruel it is to do this to any child. When a child will associate themselves with the Ugly, or Bad doll what are they going to think of themselves when they are 21, 30, 60? If someone told my niece she is ugly or less than she is the only thing I feel about that is twisting their head off, so I can only imagine what it would be like for a black mother to see her daughter pick the white doll and say the black doll is ugly. How do we as adults of any color allow this line of thinking to continue? How do WE change our thinking across the board and what do WE all do to change how we pass this to all children? I've rambled on enough, I need a chill pill. Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:42:26 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-6-lesson-9-stages-of-racial-identity-people-of-color-stages-1-4__trashed/#IDComment81473151 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-6-lesson-9-stages-of-racial-identity-people-of-color-stages-1-4__trashed/#IDComment81472826 Beauty. So many times you hear that it is only skin deep, but how far off is that? Do people grow up thinking that or do they really harbor these feelings Inside about where they are in regard to beauty. Being light skinned black, having straight hair etc. is the facet of the black community pushing values and ideals of beauty just the same as the white community pushs certain valuations of beauty on white girls (this applies to men of both colors as well but different standards). So what really is the issue here? Its Not skin deep because they are being brought up to Feel and Believe in these ideals of beauty and frankly its all a load of BS pawned off on all people by commercialization and sale of "products". Height, weight, skin color and tone, hair color and protein value, speech pattern, gate, skin clarity (ie freckles, scars, birthmarks), eye color and shape, nose, cheek bones, chin and on and on and on, every single one of those traits regardless of color is assigned a value of beauty within the demographic. Oh and here is the big big one....your socioeconomic group, Bam. Now regardless of color your all told to do what the rich people think beauty is, what the magazine rag tells you is pretty, smart or popular. The funny thing is those standards are being dictated to you across the color lines. There is common ground for all women to be angry together at the same people, the same industry that is telling them what to and not to look like, think like, act like, smell like. Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:40:14 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-6-lesson-9-stages-of-racial-identity-people-of-color-stages-1-4__trashed/#IDComment81472826 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-5-lesson-8-stages-of-racial-identity-white-people-stages-3-4__trashed/#IDComment80810729 Hope. I would like to think that the reason people stay at the table is hope for a better world and a better society for not only themselves but their children. I like to think that many stay because they may not see it yet, but are willing to stick it out and work through it. They know that things dont just magically fix themselves, and that life WILL happen regardless of what you do. I just watched Invictus and I have to say that I did not take as much of a view of Mr. Mandela and what was happening in South Africa during that time. What I took from that story was that if a nation so totally divided can come together then it was not by mistake. Someone had to stay at the table, someone had to continue the dialogue, and more than 1 person had to stand up and push for understanding. They could not just sit back and let it happen or it wouldnt have. Fri, 18 Jun 2010 13:50:32 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-5-lesson-8-stages-of-racial-identity-white-people-stages-3-4__trashed/#IDComment80810729 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-5-lesson-8-stages-of-racial-identity-white-people-stages-3-4__trashed/#IDComment80808708 I use a washcloth :) So, white guilt....hmmm. I guess under the definition I have experienced white guilt. I have felt a "certain way" about the leg up I got for being white, but not enough to not wanting it. I have moved through that feeling though. It's funny when Sam was talking about people avoiding using color as a descriptor, I have done that, but to other white people not people of color. When I was using color or ethnicity to someone of color I had no problem using it as a descriptor. It's funny that it's the white people I didnt want to get a big bag of shit from and I didnt really understand why I did that other than the fact that if I avoided using the obvious descriptions that made identifying a person normal and simple THEN it looked like I was hiding from public notification of their race. You know whats so odd though is that when you are avoiding the color with a white person and then finally you need to use it, they understand. But if I were to use it right out of the gate often they would make an issue of it....ya the white person berating the white person for NOT making a big deal about someones color. frankly I find dealing with white people on the issue of race way way more confusing than with people of non-white. But then again I dont really give a crap if someones panties get to twisted up if they are offended by normal speech, too much PC IS crippling and it makes you look and sound like a complete moron. I am about to inherit my 12 year old niece an a couple days. She is having issues at home (southern california) and her mother (my sister) thought maybe me and my wife could take care of her. My sister has 5 girls, the oldest is 13, and they have been a household of non-white haters. Its the fault of people of color that somehow has put my sister and her family in poverty (maybe its not working and having a lot of kids that did that- I'm just sayin LOL). The father is a white power nut that wanted to move them all to a white supremacist compound some years ago and the mother is always complaining about the mexicans and the blacks to her kids. The first thing my sister asked was how "white" is our community. So somehow we have to figure out how to deprogram this girl and get her moving in a new direction in regard to race. I dont want my niece to grow up hating, nor do I want her to grow up wrapped in bubble wrap. Somehow she needs to experience the world and its people for the humans they are, not the skin they wear, and that could become a challenge. So far the main exposure she has had to race has been negative. Here in State College one great thing I can say is that there is Sooo much positive exposure to non-white people. I am wondering what she is going to do when she gets to the "guilt" and how you move someone through that. I know for me I just seemed to move through, I dont that it was a conscious thing, it just happened. We (my wife and I) have discussed this at great length and the only thing we could come up with is just lead by example and make corrections as they come up. I think putting in her face would be just as damaging as doing nothing at all. One thing I dont want her to feel is guilt about being white...but on the same hand I dont want her taking Pride in it either. Why feel "proud" about your skin color, it feels to me like taking pride in your thumbs or in your big toe. Is this different for people of color? Are there other things in your minds associated with pride in skin color and is not seeing that for a white person just another tid bit we are missing? I feel like Im rambling now so Ill close it off. PS: GO USA (world cup) ;) glad to see us finally taking part with the rest of the world on this scale. Fri, 18 Jun 2010 13:42:47 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-5-lesson-8-stages-of-racial-identity-white-people-stages-3-4__trashed/#IDComment80808708 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-5-lesson-7-race-and-ethnic-inequality__trashed/#IDComment80433041 I have to say I could really see all the white people jokes and I could relate in many ways (mainly from my own observations). I have not laughed so hard in some time, but it was a laugh of knowing, more than anything else. Knowing that some white people walk around each day thinking "Damn Im cool" while doing some of these things. Walking a mile in another persons shoes. It doesnt sound so hard but to really Know what it is they feel and experience, in order to get a clearer view of How they see things, thats the trick isnt it. I think just the attempt to do so is of course a step in the right direction, but is it the right step? Like Sam said you have so much input as to what is the right response/reaction/wording to a given scenario often times its easier to bury your head in the sand and move on.At this moment I am seeing the issue of race relations in new ways. It looks on the outside to be an easy journey to start, but it is far from simple. The variability alone would seem daunting until you realize everyone just wants the same things we white folks have already had for a long time. So how do we make that step of saying to ourselves (since we are on top of the mountain) ok whitey, whats next? Are we still going to be able to keep this sense going when we have children who are competing for a scolorship? What about when we get passed over for someone of color for a job or promotion, will the resolve of reminding ourselves what the world is still be there or will that bitterness we see in so many other white people begin to work its way in through those tiny little cracks? Can we be steadfast and ever vigilant to maintain our "vision" as clear and not allow it to cloud over time? Hmm. I guess for that answer we will need to revisit this in 5,10,20 40 years. Im pretty sure my grandparents did not wake up one morning and say "Damn its good to be white, and Im going to make sure I keep it that way". They allowed those little cracks in the armor to let in doubts, fears, bias. Fear is a very powerful thing and when confronted with a seemingly rational argument it makes it even harder. I have had the shit beat out of me for being white, I have been nearly killed (a couple times) for being white and in the "wrong area" until they realized I lived in the same craphole they did LOL. At that point I had the opportunity to look at life from another view. These were now my people and I was one of them, my neighborhood, my school, my church etc, side by side. After a while the color things blended into nothing and we each learned a new perspective. Of course this is the short version of events and it was a much harder, dangerous, and painful journey that I care to go into. Suffice it to say I got a good look at the worst of it, but I still was able to walk away. Before I thought that it was because of MY resolve, that MY tenacity saw me through the darkest hours and I came out on top. Now though, Im not so sure about that. Being white helped me in ways I did not understand until recently. Even in the environment I was in, being white still meant more to a cop than being a black doctor, or even another cop that was black. I make no apologize for what has happened, but I will do better in the future to temper my concepts of others through a more awakened eye than before. Rambling over. Ding-fries are done. Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:29:26 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-5-lesson-7-race-and-ethnic-inequality__trashed/#IDComment80433041 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-5-lesson-7-race-and-ethnic-inequality__trashed/#IDComment80427318 I think the real issue can be (or I would like to think of it as such) an innocent one as a generalization. An issue of out of sight out of mind so to speak. I would like to think that once people are exposed to this concept that they would want to move forward and embrace a new view point to expand their horizons. I know that the biggest part for me was just looking at myself. Some friends and I have in the past made fun of white people in a variety of ways, but we never stopped to examine ourselves from the possible point of view of people of color. Seeing it from that direction will be an interesting trip. Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:08:02 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-5-lesson-7-race-and-ethnic-inequality__trashed/#IDComment80427318 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-4-lesson-6-race-and-ethnic-inequality__trashed/#IDComment79373214 Ok, Id like to start by retracting my post from L5 (at least in part). I was looking at the issue on a more individualized basis, and not viewing it from the macro side of it. I had no idea about the GI Loans and the post WWII offsets of race. So from that stand point I can see clearly why as a group they would be on the lower end of the stick. Affirmative action has been in place for some time, in order to try and offset the damage that was done in the past, but did it work? One statement always comes to mind...."The golden rule, he who has the gold, makes the rules". But realistically and honestly I can not say without being in the position first, that I would not slant the rules in order to favor my own child in the market place. Arent we doing just that when we spend the extra time with them to study, or meet with teachers regularly, and stay involved? Are we not pushing our children to have the advantage and the upper hand when they get to college and beyond? I dont have kids but I wonder if it isnt partially human nature to do what it takes so they might get ahead. Heck we see politicians do it all the time. They make the rules so they can shit on all of us while still staying right where they are (that one never ceases to amaze me). But really, it is not helping to neutralize the stereotype when some knuckleheads continue to do everything in their power to sandbag the rest in their respective group just so they can personally get ahead. White people do this all the time, but whites are already in power so they have the luxury of screwing the pooch publicly over and over again. Now that I think back on it, I can only remember 1 black officer serving in my unit. We had a number of NCOs that were black, but not officers. I will throw this out there though...I had to help one of my NCOs out with his reports all the time because he could not read or write. Well, he could but at a level of about a 3rd grader. Yes he was black, yes he was from the south, and YES he was one hell of an NCO and did his job among the best I have ever served with. Would I work for him again? Hell yes. could he read and write? Who gives a shit, he was a fine soldier regardless and no one ever faulted him on his lack of skill in academia. We were not in the job of writing prose or reading literature. But thinking back to those times I can definitely see how the decades of the scales being tilted had the lasting effect it does now. But here is a man who decided he would not let that be his undoing, so if he did it, and thousands more have done it...why not the rest? How do we as a single people make this happen? Yes the roads we choose make a lasting impression on our lives. When I was 20 I sure did not see that, when I was 30 I began to see it, im in my 40s and now I can see a little ahead of myself. I think that sucks that it takes so long to get your head out of your butt and make wise decisions because you can see the cause and effect. The real sucky part of it is that most of those decisions you dont even know they are important at the time because most of them are little things along the way. You know, when I was in the service we saw the skin color but it didnt mater. It never mattered. That was my brother and I would lay down my life for my brother, it never mattered what his faith or race was. But when I got out and was back in "Peaceful Society" I heard it all over the place, The damn Mexicans, the thieving blacks, the stupid asians blah blah blah. It was more humane on the damn battlefield, and less racist. Civilians are F8*ked up man. Maybe when you are knee deep in crap (literally) or have to rely on the guy next to you (regardless of color) to make it till the sun rises you realize whats really important, and its not the color of someones skin, or the god they pray to (or not), its about Who they are and what Choices they have made to become the person they are. Its about being able to and Needing to rely on one another in some way or another. Maybe the country does need to collapse under economic demolition and force us to give a shit about each other as people and brothers and sisters, and not as white, blacks, browns, etc etc. I dont know, I'm just some mean old bastard with way too much opinion time. Ding-fries are done. Wed, 9 Jun 2010 23:24:55 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/06/week-4-lesson-6-race-and-ethnic-inequality__trashed/#IDComment79373214 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/05/week-3-lesson-5-social-inequality__trashed/#IDComment78863894 With some companies race and other factors that are not related to actual skill and job applicability have been removed in the application and interviewing process. I know 1 major company that is always near the top in the F100 and always among the top rated by employees, they took race, ethnicity, age, gender etc off the applications. they ask if you are 18 or over and then just go into what your qualifications are. Then the blind interviews begin. You get up to 3 and each time the interviewer takes notes (and again all non related factors are out of it) and then those that are accepted get shuffled and given to someone else for interview 2 and so on. Personally I thought it was a long process (about 1-2 years to get a job there), but I can not think of a better way to hire the right person for a job. This company has less than 4% turn over rate and has over 11K employees. Obviously they are doing something right when it comes to judging people by Who they are and not What they are. This is just 1 example of what happens when you take those factors out. When you dont get a job there you can not blame it on anything other than your qualifications. Mon, 7 Jun 2010 04:28:22 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/05/week-3-lesson-5-social-inequality__trashed/#IDComment78863894 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/05/week-3-lesson-5-social-inequality__trashed/#IDComment78863123 One thing keeps coming to mind for me, you play with the hand life dealt you. Life totally sucked for me growing up. I moved out at 12 years old and began to make my own way; my mother played the "as long as you live under my roof..." card (ya that backfired big time). I was determined that being poor was not who I was but just a current state of economics that would change if I made it do so. I lived a lot of that woe is me life but never buckled to it or accepted it. Many others did accept the role they were given instead of creating their own and bucking the system, their loss. I am now 41 and retired and have had a fairly adventure filled life with all the ups and downs, but not once did I ever say poor me or give up. With that in mind I can not accept it when people give some BS sob story about how hard life is and they were not born with privileged or money, or they were born into a bad neighborhood (try living in a friggin box and see how bad the crappiest apt is after that). I hate to hear someone complain about how life is hard and they focus on what others have instead of driving on for what they want and Earning it. There is no limit to what a person can accomplish if they set their mind to it.......bullshit. That is totally not true, but dont blame it on life and circumstance because YOU can control that, blame it on biology. If you are born stupid you are screwed for the most part. There really is only so far you will be able to go, but for the rest out there, no excuses. I saw a 2 legged dog walking, a woman with no arms flying a plane and driving a car, so when I hear moaning and boohooing about "life" I think of people like that and consider myself a slacker LOL. People like to attribute self made people's situations as Good luck or right place right time, the reality is the vast majority of those people worked harder and smarter than the rest and that is why they "made it". They refused to be set in place and did not let others dictate to them what life IS. There is a social liability that some have in regard to race, and there will continue to be one. Whether it is the same race time and time again, who is to say, but everyone can not be at the top. Society has got to be made of of people in every social and economic level and it will always be made up of those willing to allow themselves to be held there. It all starts with individuals pushing harder, studying more, working longer and smarter and then encouraging others to do the same. Giving in is easy, standing apart and leading is hard. Take the hard road no mater what color or socioeconomic level you are at. I agree with Sam, if your born into money and you want to really test your metal, set that aside and dive in doing the crap work. No mater what happens in my life I always keep in mind where I started and all the hell I went through to get where I am now, but I also understand that "Rich" has many definitions and I like that one that fits for me. Pick what you believe "rich" is and never stop, slow down, or allow obstacles to deter you. Those obstacles are there to weed out the weak, and the test those that really have what it takes to Take life on head to head and bend it to what they want regardless of what others may say or do. I hope I didnt stand on my soap box too long LOL. Ding-fries are done. Mon, 7 Jun 2010 04:16:10 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/05/week-3-lesson-5-social-inequality__trashed/#IDComment78863123 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/05/week-3-lesson-4-ethnocentrism__trashed/#IDComment78079937 I imagine that there is a certain amount of feeling, just like you are having, from those of the Muslim faith as well when they see and hear about extremists of their religion. It really does blur the lines of who to "Distrust" etc. when you realize that you feel just as they do. But knowing that feeling, maybe that lends to more common ground between christians and muslims to further communicate with each other. Once you can "feel" what they do, and them for you, then you can being to understand what might motivate or drive each other. Once that happens look out.....You might just start a real meaningful conversation founded in understanding and trust instead of fear and misinformation. I am just as guilty as many when it comes to making generalized assumptions of some peoples, and their religions. Its even harder for me to have that talk since I do not believe in or support the concept of religion in the first place, but this is something I am working on (and this class does actually help with that). I suppose the biggest part of it is that christians, muslim, and just about every other religion really want the same things at the basic level, to live well, have the freedom to express your faith, to have families, enjoy happy moments in life without fear or worry. So why are these divides still there? Tue, 1 Jun 2010 19:46:34 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/05/week-3-lesson-4-ethnocentrism__trashed/#IDComment78079937 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/05/week-3-lesson-4-ethnocentrism__trashed/#IDComment78049481 im sorry but the whole first half of my original post has gone missing. Hopefully an admin will find it wandering in a virtual hallway and send it back to where it belongs. Tue, 1 Jun 2010 15:08:31 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/05/week-3-lesson-4-ethnocentrism__trashed/#IDComment78049481