gdp's Comments

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Sun, 25 Sep 2011 19:50:57 +0000

If a police officer *asks* me to do something or *informs me that she would like* me to do something, then she has not *ordered* me to do that thing. If, instead, she orders me to do something, it might be a lawful order, and it might be something she has no authority to compel me to do. These word games are typically used to gain compliance when the officer does not have the authority to demand it. It's similar to the manner in which they often gain consent for an unwarranted search: Just phrase it in such a manner that uninformed people (read: most of us) don't understand that they are not required to do what the officer hopes they will do.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 22:33:42 +0000

Lakeunion, it has not been "laid out for ma". People toss that term around, but refuse to clarify what it means to them. Are you unable to define obstructed in this context? You wrote, "You obstructed them before they had time to eliminate you as a probable suspect." I suspect that it means different things to different people, and that the behavior with which they associate it is often lawful. I find that typically, this term is used in "contempt-of-cop" situations. If someone's lawful behavior annoys a police officer, he's likely to be charged with obstruction.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 17:49:30 +0000

My mistake. I should have written unlawful instead of criminal. SPD's practice of withholding non-exempt public records is unlawful. It is a violation of the Washington State Public Records Act.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 17:24:04 +0000

The related criminal activity was withholding access to non-exempt public records. I suspect that the vast majority of the videos that "went missing" were destroyed as a result of negligence.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 16:31:12 +0000

Please define "obstructed".

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:57:31 +0000

Former_mil_pol wrote, "There is actually a lot of community service cops do on their time off, without expecting any kind of reward. But you never hear about something like that on the news, only when one of the cops makes a bad decision.". I responded by writing the exact same thing, but about people in a different line of work. In response, FMP wrote, "your point about the community service and the computer programmers is just dumb!" I don't know how to respond to that. Nanny-nanny-boo-boo? "My point that I am trying to make is KOMO shouldn't just focus on the bad things that happen in the SPD, because there is more good than bad that happens." And my point is that a police officer doing her job in a lawful and ethical manner is not newsworthy. It's just her doing her job. It happens every day, and it's what the majority of police do. It's what is expected of them. "As for Eric's thread, all he had to say was say I just got here a minute ago and I have no idea what you're talking about." When a police officer is investigating you, it is foolish to say anything besides, "Am I free to go?" and "I'm going to remain silent. I'd like to speak to an attorney." Anything else will be used against you. "why did he not give his ID when asked to do so" Who cares? He wasn't required to do so, and he chose not to. He was minding his own business. This isn't Soviet Russia. Police can't just stop people and demand, "Papers, please!" I applaud him for standing up for our rights. If we don't flex them, we'll lose them.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:45:15 +0000

Rarely are most people spotlighted for doing what they're paid to do or for volunteering in their free time. Every time police are caught engaging in misconduct, out come the "but you never report on the good stuff we do" whiners. When those who are authorized to enforce public policy at gunpoint engage in misconduct, it's newsworthy. When they follow the rules, it's not newsworthy; it's the norm.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:38:20 +0000

That's inaccurate, and it's an ad hominem attack. Let's discuss the facts instead of resorting to name-calling.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:34:55 +0000

Clearly, someone at SPD can and does delete videos.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:33:15 +0000

Please quote a few of the comments that lead you to designate people as "cop bashers". All I see being bashed here is misconduct, those who engage in it, and those who refuse to denounce those who engage in it.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:30:57 +0000

Keeping hands in plain site and refraining from running from police are quite different than identifying oneself, reporting one's birth date, and "following simple instructions." I attended a police accountability forum at Seattle City Hall at which Rich O'Neill, president of the local police union, claimed that most conflicts between police and other citizens could be avoided if people would simply do as police ask. He doesn't seem to understand the difference between a request and a lawful order, or that we are a nation of laws, not of men.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:23:43 +0000

I don't dispute that it is sometimes unwise for a police officer to help someone break into a car. But if there have been lots of lawsuits "for helping people get into their cars and scratching the paint or something" please cite a couple examples.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:21:19 +0000

Most snobs don't have the ability to lock you in a cage on trumped-up charges when you challenge their authority on the job.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:17:31 +0000

Former_mil_pol wrote, "There is actually a lot of community service cops do on their time off, without expecting any kind of reward. But you never hear about something like that on the news, only when one of the cops makes a bad decision." There is actually a lot of community service computer programmers like me do on our time off, without expecting any kind of reward. But you never hear about something like that on the news, only when one of us makes a bad decision. "How many people do you know, when asked a question such as "Are you with these guys?" states "I'm not making a statement"." Everyone who knows that saying anything to a police officer while he or she is investigating you is foolish would respond as such. Elsewhere in this thread, Eric wrote:

Since you mention it, here's why I refused to answer the officer's question: I had no idea what the group might have been doing before I joined them, just a couple of minutes earlier. If I had said "yes, I'm with the group" and it turned out they had just damaged somebody's property, somebody might have tried to hold me liable for what they'd done. On the other hand, if I had said, "no, I'm not with the group" and then the guy in the red bowler hat said "Oh, yeah, he's with us" then the cops might have accused me of making false statements. So I refused to answer.

He made a wise decision.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:49:23 +0000

All marked SPD patrol cars have dashcam systems. The videos they record are public records. The Washington State Public Records Act guarantees access to public records.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 00:11:40 +0000

Could you please define "obstructed"? The police had a description of the suspect, and Eric didn't match by a long-shot. They knew he hadn't done anything wrong. They were bothered by him calmly standing up for his rights, so they accused him of things he didn't do, then lied about the video.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Thu, 22 Sep 2011 00:09:51 +0000

That's ridiculous. Assuming that by "your ID" you mean documentation of your identity, you're not required to have ID, much less to carry it with you and present it upon demand. This isn't Soviet Russia.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : KOMO sues Seattle Police over public records | Local & Regional | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Bre

Wed, 21 Sep 2011 18:30:36 +0000

We don't need news reporters telling us that police are doing their jobs. That's what we pay police for. It's not newsworthy. People who enforce public policy at gunpoint should be held to a higher standard than that of other people. That they don't get a smiley sticker every time they do their jobs right doesn't mean we should look the other way when they break the rules. Please quit trying to do something about those who are just doing what they're paid to do and start focusing on fixing the problems. This is ridiculous.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Wed, 21 Sep 2011 18:19:38 +0000

It's easy to be pro-cop and anti-cop-misconduct at the same time.

KOMO - Seattle, WA : Records show seattle police lost thousands of dashcam recordings | Local & Regional | Seattle News,

Wed, 21 Sep 2011 18:18:55 +0000

I believe that your interactions with police in public are not private. I know that the PRA does not require any reason for the request of records. If it's a public record, anyone is allowed to see it, for any reason or for no reason at all. Whether the nondisclosure of every dashcam recording is essential to effective law enforcement is arguable.