en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/501640 Comments by oldaggtexan77 http://theglennbeck912project.com/9principles12values/#IDComment18701790 1) He attempted to take control of the Census which would give him power over how congressional districts are drawn up. AND, instead of making sure we have completely accurate counts, he wanted to "esimate" the numbers in some large metropolitan areas to sway the vote. 2) He has nominated a lawyer to be in his administration who has written extensively about how the US should be subject to, and obey, international law, and statutes from other countries. He also believes that foreign govts should be able to indicte US citizens for acts that have nothing to do with their judicial systems. 3) Pres. Obama plainly stated that the re-distribution of wealth is his goal; and, people who have worked hard to gain a better lifestyle should be on the "hook" for a higher tax rate to pay the way for others. 4) He has repeatedly backed gun control laws - and proposed legislation so rediculous that it would be laughable if it had not actually been suggested (raisning taxes on firearms and ammo by 500%). 5) He promised to have any legislation that he would sign on the gov. website 5 days before the vote and signing (Broke that promis quickly) Tue, 14 Apr 2009 02:25:15 +0000 http://theglennbeck912project.com/9principles12values/#IDComment18701790 http://theglennbeck912project.com/?page_id=10#IDComment18700183 Good comments _Ray. The comments and blogs are straying from the initial section's intended forum here. The subjects and debates are getting away from the posted topics and sinking into the typical mess blogs produce!! Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:44:21 +0000 http://theglennbeck912project.com/?page_id=10#IDComment18700183 http://theglennbeck912project.com/?page_id=10#IDComment18699945 It is amazing how the Obama pundits posting here are trying to upset the apple cart and inviting debate. The debate angle is good, but how about debating the main thrust of this section of Glenn's project - namely, the 12 values. If we do not return to the values listed above, teach our children some self-discipline and self respect, and try to live by a few simple principles (doesn't matter if you are religious or not), we are doomed to fail as a society in the long run. I would like to hear from these leftists and see if they whole-heartedly agree or disagree that these values are good guidelines for living a fruitful life in this land. We are now a selfish, self-absorbed, dishonest and lazy society. We cannot support everyone by "giving" all citizens a lifestyle; this country was founded on guaranteeing ONLY the right to pursue happiness through and individual's efforts - not guaranteeing a set lifestyle!!!! Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:38:06 +0000 http://theglennbeck912project.com/?page_id=10#IDComment18699945 http://theglennbeck912project.com/9principles12values/#IDComment18699096 Nit picking - of course ya fit if you are seriously asking the question, and not just trying to make a rhetorical statement. The belief, or non-belief of a citizen in "GOD" is not the question. The complete war and attack on the values that sprung from the Judeo-Christian norms is. Not all of the founding fathers were dogmatic in their belief system, and some even disliked organized religion. However, it is plain that most, if not all, recognized that something must act as a moral compass in the land, and that this may be accomplished by respect for the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and yes, even a personal relationship with a Supreme Power. If you hold all the other values and principles listed in your heart - I think it is a mistake to say you would be excluded because you are an athiest. HMMM .... sounds like indoctrination from the left - they want to portray Christians in the worst light, and that is just as wrong (food for thought)!!! Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:17:23 +0000 http://theglennbeck912project.com/9principles12values/#IDComment18699096 http://theglennbeck912project.com/9principles12values/#IDComment18698531 There were some of the forefathers who had a disdain for "organized religion"; most, did believe in a Supreme Being. Some, as the Pilgrims, had been persecuted by the churches in Europe. However, they were still men and women of faith; and, through their writings, it is clear they believed that to pull religious norms from an individual's daily thought process was a MISTAKE. By the way, the church in England was the "Church of England" (Anglicans), not the Roman Catholic chuch. To forget, ignore and deny that solid Judeo-Christian ideals had a hand in shaping the Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration is incorrect. No, we are not a govt. of religions - who said we were??? You did not read my post carefully - I NEVER said that the govt. should back a religion - but, many athiests and non-Christians are attempting to silence and humiliate those of us who do believe in a Supreme Power (and guess what, that is just as wrong!!!). Also, where is it stated that there are any founding father works, or in the Constitution, that forbade religious beliefs from being brought to secular political discourse? Tue, 14 Apr 2009 01:04:50 +0000 http://theglennbeck912project.com/9principles12values/#IDComment18698531 http://theglennbeck912project.com/9principles12values/#IDComment18697433 Dave, When did I ever say I wanted to have a Christian dominated state?? The idea that any religion, or secular imposed dictatorship, should rule the govt. is the furthest from my mind. I am simply pointing out that anyone who says that our republic excludes any religious and moral guidelines is incorrect and not historically correct. Yes, one may do as they wish, when they wish - as long as they are not imposing on someone else's rights, or violating established written laws of this land. We, as a people, feel that freedom includes treading on others feeling and rights (the assault on Christianity for example) - It does not. There is not provision in the Constitution that bars an individual from bringing his faith to the table of political discourse - it does provide to keep anyone from imposing their will on another citizen that will infringe on civil rights set forth in the Constitution, Declaration, and Bill of Rights. If you are a person who does not believe in God - FINE - there are plenty of devout Christians that respect other ideologies ya know. Tue, 14 Apr 2009 00:39:30 +0000 http://theglennbeck912project.com/9principles12values/#IDComment18697433 http://theglennbeck912project.com/9principles12values/#IDComment18657690 Quick quotes are nice, but it is essential to look at all in context - and that is not present here. Each of these men you quoted also wrote extensively on how God/creator/supreme being did have a hand in the creation and course of world affairs. These quotes show a distrust of organized churches of the time; but, in no way, mean that these men did not believe in a supreme being. In fact, George W. wrote that to disregard the plans and teachings of a "master hand" was quite a mistake - even in political endeavors. We, as a society and republic, should respect all beliefs and religions - even those who believe in no god at all, but we should not mute any one group for political expediency. I am sick of political correctness! Mon, 13 Apr 2009 06:37:17 +0000 http://theglennbeck912project.com/9principles12values/#IDComment18657690 http://theglennbeck912project.com/9principles12values/#IDComment18657187 We are again debating religion here. The left does not care about Christian theology and ideology; they only see it as a group to bash and gain traction. We are slipping as a nation because our values have gone down the toilet - excuse my description. We, as a people, have lost our way, and are running farther off the path with every passing day. Any religious belief calls for self-control, a discipline and world view that calls for service to others, and an acceptance that the individual is part of something larger than the individual alone. It is important to note that all totalitarian and marxist states of the modern age attempt to stamp out religion!! We want to do what we want, when we want, how we want, and where we want with no regard for others and our society. We will never be able to defend the Constitutional rights and liberty granted in our wonderful writings if we try to unplug all moral and ethical beliefs for political expediency. Mon, 13 Apr 2009 06:14:42 +0000 http://theglennbeck912project.com/9principles12values/#IDComment18657187 http://theglennbeck912project.com/9principles12values/#IDComment18656518 I am amazed at the attacks on Christianity in this blog, especially here in this project site. I agree that this great nation should be tolerant of all religions - even individuals who do not believe in any deity, and that the business of our government should be to protect and defend the Constitution, the rights imparted, and the safety of all those legally within its borders. However, to say that we as Christians should be mute is a fool's errand. We are in the mess that we find ourselves because we have allowed politically correct and progressive idealism to whittle away at our core values/principles which (whether some groups like it or not) are based on Judeo-Christian values. (Look at the writings of the founding fathers my friends) - it is clear that they were basing their blueprint on religious values even though the plan was not to have a religiously controlled enterprise!!! The separation of church and state does not mean that religious beliefs have no place in guiding a nation's conscience; the separation was there to guarantee that a state would not attempt to have a "state religion". Calling for all Christians to be silent is to bow to political correctness itself. Mon, 13 Apr 2009 05:48:54 +0000 http://theglennbeck912project.com/9principles12values/#IDComment18656518 http://theglennbeck912project.com/?page_id=10#IDComment18602513 FreedomDude, You know the definitions of Socialists; and, I am sure you know the definition of communist ideology. Let's see, the New Deal, the Great Society - Hmmmm, I believe you can answer that question for yourself. Fact is, even Teddy Roosevelt, who I respect, was a progressive. I believe these men were following what they thought was right, but their policies led the nation on a path away from the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Do more research and answer your own loaded question - don't take our word for it!!!!! Sun, 12 Apr 2009 07:39:28 +0000 http://theglennbeck912project.com/?page_id=10#IDComment18602513 http://theglennbeck912project.com/?page_id=10#IDComment18602173 These twelve values are only going to become a piece of our fabric again if we defend our religious freedoms, make sure that we raise our children with self control/discipline, and begin to engage political correctness with civil and constructive discussion. We have allowed the easy life our fathers and mothers (the WWII generation) gave us to twist our idea of liberty into a belief that we are somehow owed pleasure and a certain lifestyle. We are not. We are only given the right of the "pursuit" of life, liberty and happiness - we are not guarranteed that the gov will give us all we need or want. Get away from your TV's, your computers, your text messages, your blogs, and talk to someone - encourage someone - visit your kid's school - volunteer. My father would have never believed we would be talking about a common world currency, kneeling to international law over our own, and nationalization of US business - I'm glad that old, proud veteran passed before he witnessed this. And, I am glad he raised me to believe that America was a good place, a place worth sacrificing for. WHAT ARE ALL OF YOU REALLY WILLING TO SACRIFICE AND DEFEND!!!! Sun, 12 Apr 2009 07:26:21 +0000 http://theglennbeck912project.com/?page_id=10#IDComment18602173 http://theglennbeck912project.com/?page_id=10#IDComment18601861 traveller, I am disappointed with some repubs over the years. But, are you willing to admit that the dems that have run congress for over 2 years allowed the collapse also. Oh, by the way, wasn't it Barney and Mr. Dodd that are hip deep in the mess with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae???? Hmmm, ironic is it not. Remember, it was Bush and Rove who wanted to bring the FM and FM into line and reign them in all the way back in 2001 and 2004. Do more RESEARCH. Read the principles and values - maybe you will quit spewing this swill. Sun, 12 Apr 2009 07:12:06 +0000 http://theglennbeck912project.com/?page_id=10#IDComment18601861 http://theglennbeck912project.com/?page_id=10#IDComment18601680 traveller, Please - where do you get all this from. You are condemning the comments here and Mr. Beck, speaking of how we are all "killers". Your words drip with hate and anger; yet, you accuse all of us gathered here of wanting our fellow citizens harmed. You are a plant of the left, an angry professor, a brain washed college student living on dad's money, or typing away from your basement. Get out of your - "I told you!" - mode, and really read what this project is about. We are all Americans and don't wish harm on everyone else. It is a shame that the left always attacks what they don't even research, and then begin the namecalling game. Did you really read the values and give any thought that these ideas just may be a good thing for the US, or are u so indoctrinated that you don't know how to engage in civil discourse, Do some homework and don't believe everything your prof told ya!!!!! Remember - question all authority and information - from the left and right!!!! Sun, 12 Apr 2009 07:04:52 +0000 http://theglennbeck912project.com/?page_id=10#IDComment18601680 http://www.the912project.com/2009/03/24/mission-statement/#IDComment18600989 This all boils down to personal responsibility - we, as a nation, are losing the ability to act in a responsible fashion and are allowing our kids to grow up with no rules, no religious grounding, and no self control. We have become too comfortable with texting, blogging, and watching mindless shows like "American Idol" instead of being at civic events, the polls during elections, our jobs every day, and (God forbid) church!! We allow political correctness to be used as a weapon to muzzle our speach, our ideas, and our hearts; and, we sit there and wring our hands. But still, we do nothing. The answer is not in dems or repubs, libs or conservs; the answer lies in our regaining a little self control, a little self respect, and taking the "bull by the horns" (Sorry, I'm Texan - I could not resist the cliche')!!!! Sun, 12 Apr 2009 06:39:38 +0000 http://www.the912project.com/2009/03/24/mission-statement/#IDComment18600989 http://www.the912project.com/2009/03/24/mission-statement/#IDComment18585548 j_k, The plain truth is that President Obama is breaking promises at a record rate (remember the 5 day rule for bills to be placed on the gov website before voting and being signed into law)?!? He is bowing to foreign royalty, failing to follow his own campaign promises, has made moves to try and grab the control over census numbers, and members of his administration have already been making overtures on using fear tactics to bring back gun bans. This isn't even touching on the stimulus packages, and the firing of a corporate CEO by the government! His current prospect for the admin team is downright terrifying as he wants to have the US subject to international law!!!!!!! President Bush created the detainment camps to house PRISONERS OF WAR. The muslim terrorists cannot have it both ways; they first claim to be warriors and fighters in a cause, but then, they want protections and rights the same as the people who they have attacked. Please leave whatever univ you are being indoctrinated by. You are either in academia, or are being corrupted by professors who loathe the U.S. I am ashamed at what the universities have done to the youth of this great land. Sun, 12 Apr 2009 00:04:04 +0000 http://www.the912project.com/2009/03/24/mission-statement/#IDComment18585548