en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/338577 Comments by mikeymike http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027186.php#IDComment30724131 So on to comparing honor killings to drink driving and domestic assault. Just because one thing is more likely to happen, does not make the other less abhorrent. Can we find anyone in the community who would be willing to say that drink driving and domestic assault are acceptable? No, in fact we can point to advertising campaigns, educational programs and jail time as our societal rejection of these activities. The fact that these things still happen means that more must be done. So let's look at the Islamic community - what marketing, educational programs or sharia based sanctions can you point to that show the Islamic community's rejection of honor killings? Fri, 14 Aug 2009 04:43:01 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027186.php#IDComment30724131 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027186.php#IDComment30724117 "Does the whole of Christianity take responsibility for those Christians who do this? I would like you to answer that question." "The fact that there have been failures from leaders within my Catholic community to expose criminal behaviour (specifically in relation to sex crimes) is something that I have to deal with, to my anger and shame. This is not something that I am proud of. And as a Catholic, I have to respond to non-Catholics who bring this up; I have to take responsibility for the actions of my leaders. Having said that, this is not a debate in my community. Nobody is wishing these criminals had never been caught, nobody is saying that what they did is excusable in any way. THAT is the difference. Fri, 14 Aug 2009 04:42:50 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027186.php#IDComment30724117 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027186.php#IDComment30724064 "This has nothing to do with Islam period." Then why did you post "First, this issue is debated within the Muslim community, it's not set in stone that this is the case"? If it is debated in the community, then the attitude exits as an Islamic position, whether you think it is the correct position or not. "Again, do you honestly think Muslims are to police each other as to who will commit a crime?" Actually, yes. If I am aware of criminal behaviour, it is my responsibility to turn that person in. And, God forbid, should I ever hear of a conspiracy to commit a crime, I'll be turning them in there as well. Fri, 14 Aug 2009 04:42:10 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027186.php#IDComment30724064 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027186.php#IDComment30724024 Let's start by agreeing on some definitions. Intellectual dishonesty: representing a position that the advocate knows to be false; deliberately omitting facts that are relevant to one's position. Ad Hominem: Latin for "argument to the man"; attacking the person instead of their ideas. I am guilty of neither. And making a point about the correlation between Islam and groups of criminals and despots is not an attack on you personally, it is an attack on your religion. Fri, 14 Aug 2009 04:41:33 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027186.php#IDComment30724024 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027186.php#IDComment30595930 I've counted 4 times the use of the phrase "ad hominem" and the first thing you say is "Once again, learn to read. Take off your bigotted glasses for a moment, then read, yes, with an OPEN mind if you have one." Why not practice what you preach? You do your argument a disservice by calling me a bigot simply because I disagree with you. Actually, I don't recall seeing anywhere that this is a majority argument. I am quite willing to say that you are correct; I am not active in the Islamic community. So let's say you are correct that there is a minority that thinks it is quite normal to kill your own family members because they leave Islam. What is an acceptable figure to you? 30%? 10%? My concern is that there is in fact a debate at all. My concern is that this attitude exists at all. My concern is for the girl in the middle of this very real danger. And my final concern is that I cannot tell the difference between those who would and those who would not kill. Can you? I'm trying to think of other groups that have this debate - Catholics? No. Athiests? No. Freemasons. No. Organised criminals. Yes. Military dictatorships. Yes. Congratulations. On this issue, Islam has more in common with criminals and despots than organised religions. Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:56:51 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027186.php#IDComment30595930 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027185.php#IDComment30472900 I would love to get my hands on the strategic document from CAIR that says: "Shut down opposing views. Do not debate. Talk to the media only. Accuse all opposing views as "bigotry" or "racism". Say you will not talk to "extremists". Marginalise those who would speak out against you." It's the ALA all over again. And it's the same strategy. Spencer should get on the other end of a teleprompter the next time CAIR is in the media. Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:15:02 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027185.php#IDComment30472900 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027186.php#IDComment30471990 "First, this issue is debated within the Muslim community, it's not set in stone that this is the case." So if there is debate there there is a side for and a side against. Which means that there are some in the community who would be quite willing to kill their own family members because they leave Islam. Your own argument condemns you. Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:03:27 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027186.php#IDComment30471990 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027136.php#IDComment29672290 "They were invited in with open arms, financially subsidized and catered to by the post-Christian, secular leftist, multicultural elites " Really. So Ronald, George Snr, George W, Thatcher and J Howard all put the brakes on Islamic expansion and pandering in their own countries? Didn't think so. And let's not mention the close economic ties that the "right wing neo cons" have with the Saudis. Bashing liberals is all fun, but some of us are on your side. Bashing multiculturalism is fun, but up until now, it has worked reasonably well. Not perfectly, but aren't there some US cities that owe their culture to waves of immigrants? Like (oh, I don't know) Boston owes the Irish? Liberals aren't the only ones who created this mess. Those of us that are true to our principles are quite happy to swim against the stream. Don't abuse your allies. Thu, 6 Aug 2009 04:52:12 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027136.php#IDComment29672290 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027057.php#IDComment28691650 I saw that one too. I'm guessing the administrators will pick up on the news feed and cancel all ratings from the last couple of days. Interesting to note the older posts. Largely favourable, but all have spelling or grammatical errors. Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:38:28 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027057.php#IDComment28691650 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027059.php#IDComment28690329 "The dishonest apologists for Islam would have you believe that it is all a bit of a misunderstanding." And yet the one question that I have never heard: "He must have been getting his information from somewhere, several Imams or scholars must have spoken to him at length about Jihad, how could he have gotten it so wrong?" And the follow up: "The Muslim community is not that big in Australia. Surely you would be familiar with some of the people who were guiding Mr Kent, what would you say to them?" Wed, 29 Jul 2009 08:05:18 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027059.php#IDComment28690329 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027062.php#IDComment28683730 Ok, I'm going to swim against the stream here and say: Well done, good start, needs better marketing. You could look at this as an act of a dhimmi. I like to think of it as a line in the sand. Here it is, your chance to back up your rhetoric of peace with an actual deed: issue a fatwa. Not much of a deed, but still a real action. And now is the time to make public the whole invitation and silent response. And maybe this should be done in the US with Ibe Hooper. And in Australia with Taj Din Alhilali. And in UK with Anjem Choudry. Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:46:08 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027062.php#IDComment28683730 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027044.php#IDComment28572630 Good on you for standing up! And good on you for reporting it to the police. But... WTF???? Why wasn't he arrested??? Surely this should be brought to the attention of the local superintendant. How about posting the video to youtube? Tue, 28 Jul 2009 03:18:36 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027044.php#IDComment28572630 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027044.php#IDComment28572012 Don't worry, some of us Liberals are coming around. Tue, 28 Jul 2009 03:09:13 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027044.php#IDComment28572012 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027044.php#IDComment28571955 Thank you Doughnuts. As a liberal, I have heard this message and I am listening. As for you Markolee, I have seen the words and actions of Muslims who would disagree with you. If you are right, show me the words and actions that would prove me wrong. Tue, 28 Jul 2009 03:08:07 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027044.php#IDComment28571955 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026986.php#IDComment28046479 Great. So the obvious answer is to stop all immigration - and visas? - from any Muslim majority country. Any better ideas, Abu? Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:43:14 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026986.php#IDComment28046479 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026986.php#IDComment28037047 It depends... Are they going to be 'good' Muslims? You know, love the Taliban, bring on Sharia, all women in a veil, happy to blow themselves up in Israel. Not happy. Makes me think that Geert is on the right track, so expect the electoral backlash, Abu. Or are they going to be 'bad' Muslims? Live and let live, live by the culture and laws of the nation, happy to get along with other religions? Not a problem. Especially if they expose the criminal elements in their own community. Does that answer your question? Now how about you answer mine: How can I tell the difference just by looking at them? Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:46:06 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026986.php#IDComment28037047 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026926.php#IDComment27327635 Excellent analysis once again Cornelius. China's biggest concern is saving face. Internal unrest or dissent is crushed if it is seen as a threat to authority or quietly managed if it can be kept silent. The Chinese have been dealing with Islamic separatists since the early 90s. And what have we heard up until now? Wed, 15 Jul 2009 08:15:31 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026926.php#IDComment27327635 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026924.php#IDComment27317277 The one that calls the truce in a snowball fight is the one that has run out of snowballs... "That will do for now. Perhaps another time." Indeed. If I may (most humbly) summarise this argument; at no time has Robert ever said "All Muslims are..." in reference to totalitarian, terrorist or supremecist beliefs. Rather, those that adhere to Islamic totalitarian (terrorist or supremecist) beliefs will find many examples of appropriate sacred texts and authoritative clerics willing to endorse their words and actions. Wed, 15 Jul 2009 05:22:03 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026924.php#IDComment27317277 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026924.php#IDComment27316281 "It's the vibe!" The Castle! I win! Nice one MB. Wed, 15 Jul 2009 05:05:13 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026924.php#IDComment27316281 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026858.php#IDComment26845565 You're right it has been interesting and may I say, far more polite than some liberal discussions I have had lately. In regards to video vs religion. That's a tough one. May I point you to today's article for the response to the ALA conference and CAIR's protest letter? And I think Geert has said that he has no problem with Muslims themselves, just some of their teachings. Let me be clear: neither you nor I have any hope of changing those teachings. Like Martin Luther, protest and reform must come from within to be effective. I believe the only thing we can do is stand up in response to words and deeds of individuals. Anything more will tighten Islamic resolve. I'm happy to agree to disagree on the term multiculturalism. I'll keep fighting for it, because I can do nothing else. My upbringing (where it was difficult to find multigenerational Australians at my school) demands no less. And you're right, this has been fun. And enlightening. At least I think you can say that not all liberals are idiots...? I can live in hope. Fri, 10 Jul 2009 01:22:33 +0000 http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026858.php#IDComment26845565