en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/769455 Comments by kenthethird https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-are-we-doing-here-really__trashed/#IDComment68776459 The goal should be to eliminate tension between people of different race and ethnicities. We should be able to sit comfortably and interact with anybody, regardless of race. While a lot of people are comfortable with this, many people “feel some sort of way” about being in the company of other races. I think the tension comes from stereotypes we’ve learned that lead us to believe we should separate from each other. White people still have stereotyped images of black people that lead them to believe that they cannot come together, that their cultures are too different. A lot of people accept and explore different cultures, and I think those people will get along with different races much better. If a white-american only explores white-american culture, they will “feel some sort of way” around differently cultured people, because they are completely ignorant to that culture. Learning popular culture is a good way to start to bridge the gap. I feel like music brings people together, it sounds corny but I feel like I have learned more about different cultures through music than other ways. Rhythm is universal and it speaks to everybody. Check out International films, documentaries, you can get at least take a look into different cultures. I think a lot of people steer away from embracing different cultures because they think they’re restricted to their own culture. Or if they have to read the subtitles on a movie they won't watch it. I know plenty of “rednecks” who simply do not embrace cultures other than their own, and unfortunately they are very stereotypical human beings. There are also many people who embrace different cultures, and from my experience these people feel less tension when around people of different race and ethnicity. Why do some people feel so comfortable in embracing different cultures? I think some people just take more interest in different walks of life. Some people are just stuck in the culture they grew up with, and are inherently blind until they open their eyes to the diversity. As a white boy, for quite some time I felt ackward in embracing cultures not inherent to me, but after a while it just felt that it was my own, and know I don’t feel that culture should be restricted to any group of people. Just because you create it, doesn’t mean it can’t or shouldn’t be enjoyed by anyone else. Mon, 19 Apr 2010 02:37:08 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-are-we-doing-here-really__trashed/#IDComment68776459 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-the-men__trashed/#IDComment68366019 Well, I wouldn't call trying to adopt some of your father's style as "conforming to society". Your not getting your ideas from a popular image, rather your family. I feel like most people look to an image that is unattainable, or try to emulate someone who they have no connection with. Societal trends change so quickly that what was hot 5 years ago isn't hot now. In the realm of personal style, I feel like your not conforming to society unless you've changed your image because of the people in you're generation. I feel like it's the younger generations that feel the need to emulate eachother and conform to certain looks. Some people really think they need to conform to what's hot, and it's silly because people are losing their individuality in the process. Fri, 16 Apr 2010 12:35:56 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-the-men__trashed/#IDComment68366019 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-the-men__trashed/#IDComment68323892 There's a huge tendency to conform for both males and females. As far as media and the magazines go, I think it's safe to say they target both genders. Many people think that what sells is what they should conform to, that the image is to be emulated. It's been apparent that sex sells for a while now, and it's not about promoting good health as much as it's about selling sexuality, by exposing the human body. I think woman face more scrutiny when it comes to their bodies, because popular images do not represent what all woman look like. So long as people look to popular images to conform to their standards, and as long as people feel the need to conform to their peers, this mass conformation will continue to exist, for both males and females. Fri, 16 Apr 2010 04:49:15 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-the-men__trashed/#IDComment68323892 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/how-can-we-ever-win__trashed/#IDComment65449565 Hahah, there's gotta be a white dude out there who could get down with the Wu ! But totally agree about the LL "beaners", as Sam put it. I don't know whether I'm in the wrong to thing that the models looked awkward as hell, but I think they did. . A lot of people, black people included will chuckle at some thugged out white boys posing like their hard in baggy jeans and no shirt, it doesn't mean they shouldn't or can't dress like that. I mean, the term "wigger" came about because people think style of dress can be owned. Its the same thing here, I think its been established that cashmere sweaters and olive-green khakis are mostly worn by white people, I'm not used to seeing black people in that getup. This clothing barrier is less prevalent than it was like 10 or 15 years ago, when I saw a lot of young people of color wearing baggy ass clothes, huge FUBU shirts and big basketball jerseys, which became a distinguishing look for people into urban culture, something largely embraced by minorites. It's just that times are changing and some of those clothing styles aren't worn anymore, I've noticed American Eagle and Hollister aren't just for white people anymore either. I kind of wish more people where like the comedians we watch. I laughed at Sam's selection of L L bean images, the fact that they all have fake ass smiles does not make them look very natural in the first place, regardless of race. I think L L bean clothing is pretty corny dapper in general, and the L L bean sweater/dress shirt combo makes anybody look like Gregory Peck. I don't ever remember being told that white people dress a certain way, or black people dress a certain way, but over the years it's became apparent that certain styles have been claimed and exploited by particular groups of people, and naturally I laugh when I see the black family dressed head to toe in the corny-dapper L L bean gear. Because, for many years, I've regarded L L bean clothing as garments for adventurous, canteen toting, walking-stick-having white people in Maine. I think stereotypes are kind of cool. In the realm of comedy, I think it's safe to say that most stereotype jokes are funny because they actually do apply to a lot of people . I've always laughed at Eddie Murphy ripping on nerdy white people's voices, not to say that they all talk like that, but some do! and that shit is funny for him to point out, I don't get all offended about it because, what can I say? I've seen these nerdy folks before. Fri, 2 Apr 2010 05:05:39 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/how-can-we-ever-win__trashed/#IDComment65449565 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/revisioning-the-revisioning-stage__trashed/#IDComment65275891 How could you have not known it was set in Africa?! And kids love animals that talk, its fantasy, not a documentary about Africa. As I recall, James Earl Jones, a man of color, does the voice for Musafa, Whoopie Goldberg was a voice, Cheech Marin was also voice among others. The whole cast is actually quite diverse if you check it out. I don't think Disney was in the wrong at all by making it all about animals. The animals in Africa are exotic and new to young children, especially in the U.S. I think this Lion King argument is kinda weak in terms of exposing racial inequality. Thu, 1 Apr 2010 19:31:37 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/revisioning-the-revisioning-stage__trashed/#IDComment65275891 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/what-about-multiracial-people__trashed/#IDComment65047219 Initially looking at this student, I wouldn't call him white. I think his skin tone and hair are pretty good evidence that he's mixed. I think he should identify himself with which group he feels most connected with, even though he's both white and brown. I think a lot of people who are mixed choose to identify with the darker side of the family because the culture appeals to them more. I think there is a certain pride people feel by being connected to a different culture, identification depends on how much you immerse yourself in that culture. Personally, I think his physical features suggest he's a mixed race, whether he identifies himself as hispanic would depend on how educated and comfortable he is about his Puerto Rican heritage. Race is the tough part, but I think if he understands his ethnicity and has learned the culture, he would probably identify as a mixed race. He's on the brown team because he's got it in his blood, and he should certainly embrace being mixed if he's immersed in both cultures. Wed, 31 Mar 2010 18:25:41 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/what-about-multiracial-people__trashed/#IDComment65047219 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment64275421 Please don't let them listen to Lil Wayne! he really shouldn't be admired! Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:38:07 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment64275421 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment64274897 I dont think these kids are old enough to comprehend self-worth, those dolls aren't representations of themselves, they are just two different colors. THEY didn't say "bad" or "nice", the people behind the camera did anyways. Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:32:26 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment64274897 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment64271155 what if they all chose black dolls? would that be disturbing for white people? Maybe a little Fri, 26 Mar 2010 23:54:42 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment64271155 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment64270791 How are kids this young able to associate a certain skin color with being better. I mean, I think this test would have been better if they just left them in the room with the dolls, without all those words being tossed around. Its hard for me not to consider that their parents aren't talking about racial issues from an unbiased standpoint. Maybe they are picking the white doll because their parents talk about white people in a way that would influence a child not to associate themselves with the darker color. Isn't it the parents who are tossing around ideas of negativity associated with having dark skin? These kids aren't old enough to have learned this on their own. If it is indeed a totally honest experiment, these children have been brainwashed by someone. Maybe its the majority of fantastical white characters in the movies that make them want to play with the white doll, but that doesn't explain why the dark skinned doll is bad. I generally don't like this experiment. Maybe its because its only 1 minute long and its edited together to make it look like these children are responding before they can even think about it, they seem straight brainwashed! I noticed they only showed 10 different kids, I think they should have shown them all, especially if this experiment is supposed to suggest that this is such an overwhelming issue. I don't like that I can't see the interviewer (how easy would it be to influence these kids by looking at the white doll after you asked the question?) I mean, I really would love to prove this video was totally staged, because I hate this feeling that everyone wants racism to exist. I think the only way to forget about race is to cut your eyeballs out so that you cant see the color, it will always be there. But, I think its shit like this that keeps reminding of us where we once were as a country, It appears that they want to suggest that we havn't changed. Holy shit i thought we made it somewhere since then! I guess we need to keep doing these tests to remind ourselves that we will be perpetually conscious of race. Is there some mysterious force out there that is telling these children that being dark skinned means you're bad? I can't grasp it. Either Sam has it nailed that white people struggle to see racism or we are the only ones who truly want to stop it. The girls in this video should wear their hair however they like and if they are truly proud of being black, they wouldn't give a shit if someone talked about their light skin, they're still black. Theres stipulations that create racism between people of color too- Good hair, light skin, which parent(s) are black, white people didn't create that and I only hear those things discussed by people of color. I don't see these forms of discrimination going away so long as people want to define themselves by only one particular race. Fri, 26 Mar 2010 23:50:58 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment64270791 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/in-her-own-words__trashed/#IDComment64252614 Yea, I don't know what more we should do in the world to better the situation. yea I guess Sam is suggesting that we all listen to women more when they talk about their struggles. Like you say, its been happening since the beginning of mankind, have women wanted days off during that part of the month before?, I'm sure. This day in age though, everyone is so conscious of disease that we're always looking for reasons to bring medical treatment into the picture, which happened with symptoms of pms. It certainly shouldn't be a tabboo conversation, and I don't really think it is. I don't think a man would walk away from a woman talking about her issues regarding her cycle, but I don't think he could carry on a good conversation. There are many symptoms of a woman's cycle that anyone can relate to (unhappiness, anxiety, headaches, insomnia), all of which effect people of any race or gender. Bleeding from the vagina is the only female exclusive symptom and it's unnerving conversation because it's blood, it seems logical why many woman don't openly talk about it. Fri, 26 Mar 2010 21:33:00 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/in-her-own-words__trashed/#IDComment64252614 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/in-her-own-words__trashed/#IDComment64247390 Well, what is stopping women from talking about it? Just because men are grossed out by it, doesn't mean you can't discuss why you feel the way you do. I feel like women don't usually talk about it because its a private issue that men certainly couldn't relate to. The simple fact that blood is involved automatically makes it an issue that some people won't be comfortable with, most times the sight of blood is unnerving. The reality that bleeding is a regular part of a woman's life is hard to grasp for those of us that only bleed when we get injured. I think it's obvious WHY it would be an uncomfortable subject, a lot of people get sick to the stomach when they see blood. Everyone is aware of PMS, it's regarded as a disease by pharmaceutical companies and that's why we see commercials for products that treat symptoms from PMS. I don't think women are being ignored for this issue, but Its hard to sell bleeding as a beautiful process in human life. Fri, 26 Mar 2010 20:46:55 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/in-her-own-words__trashed/#IDComment64247390 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/what-happens-to-multiracial-people__trashed/#IDComment63102848 I think most would identify with either group based on their skin color. I also think that people will identify themselves as colored or white based on their interest in the culture. Someone who is half white and half black might choose to identify themselves as colored not only because of their skin tone, but also because of their superior interest in black culture. Multi-racial people can speak for multiple race categories, they should be able to identify themselves however they choose. It is interesting though that here is another question inciting racial divide. Maybe Sam is going to have to make another category for those who won't identify themselves as white or colored, perhaps lightly colored. Sat, 20 Mar 2010 03:26:09 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/what-happens-to-multiracial-people__trashed/#IDComment63102848 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/does-this-rudeness-thing-cut-both-ways__trashed/#IDComment63067652 I think that this issue has been around for a lot of years, so much that it's it's own stereotype and a modern day joke now: "what do you mean? you people?" is like a cliche line of dialogue for easily offended black movie characters. I think some of the questions posted in class are conducive of a certain amount of tension between races, especially when Sam says "ok, everybody on THE WHITE TEAM" and "everybody on the BLACK TEAM", I think it becomes easy to get defensive when you see the things other races want to label you with. When someone texted about the loud black girls at the library, it can be looked at a few ways: it seemed like a line was crossed for black people when some responded vocally, so is it because they are well aware of a stereotype? or was it because it hit home for them because they are in fact loud in the library themselves? I think its a stereotype that black women have their vocals turned up a little louder than other people, but not everybody will identify themselves like that. I think the guy who texted the response has some pent up anger inside and perhaps would rather sit by and judge black people as a whole for being loud than go up and ask them to quiet down. I do think that there is a further defined line that cannot be crossed when talking about black people as opposed to white people, I think that joking about stereotyped white culture and behavior is more accepted. I know there are a lot more black comedians doing impressions of white people than white comedians doing impressions of black people. Fri, 19 Mar 2010 23:23:50 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/does-this-rudeness-thing-cut-both-ways__trashed/#IDComment63067652 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/native-americans-question-one__trashed/#IDComment59813355 It took me many years to see that "cowboys and indians" is an inappropriate game for children to be play. It also took me a while to realize how little I learned about native americans in school. I think its hard to teach our youth that the America was founded through mass genocide and stealing from the Natives. I agree with a few people in saying that our violent history would be tough not explain explicitly. We could start by raising awareness to the fact that Native American tribes still exist, but on segregated reservations. From there, it seems like only a matter of time before everyone wants to know; why are they in reservations? how did they get there? In school, I remember learning most about their colorful culture, the way they lived off of the land, the way they used every resource to the fullest. Native Americans seemed so efficient, I don't know why I never questioned the reason why they aren't thriving today, or why I don't see this culture anymore. It was such a raw deal, I think our educational system teaches the Holocaust because we are too ashamed to admit such genocide happened on our own soil, so we talk about Germany instead. I never learned about native americans being killed, I learned about all those buffalo being killed. The way I was taught, it was like the "settlers" just hated the buffalo, not the native americans themselves. Teachers always left out the actual relationship between Native Americans and "settlers". It always seemed that settlers moving out west had an INDIRECT relationship to Native Americans. The Native Americans just decided they no longer wanted to occupy the space, so the "settlers" moved in. I don't think a lot of kids are aware that Native Americans are still alive and in tribes in the U.S. Sam asked us to name tribes, and then to guess how many are in existence today, we could ask the same thing of our children in elementary schools. That would immediately raise awareness that Native American culture still exists today, children would probably want to visit a reservation if you told them. But we should first stop teaching children the "cowboys and indians". The concept is harmless, but even the title "Cowboys and Indians" is wrong. Everybody wants to be a gun slinging cowboy as a child, so the kids who pretend to be Indians are going to lose every time; so In a way, we ARE teaching our children about what happened, except in the form of a childhood game about victory over another race. Perhaps kids should just play "cops and robbers" , and we'll hope they all want to play cops. Fri, 5 Mar 2010 00:34:47 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/native-americans-question-one__trashed/#IDComment59813355 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/why-is-this-racist-really__trashed/#IDComment59774377 He doesn't come across as a racist, he does seem a little jealous however. Moose is trying to create a league that might have been popular many years ago, but probably not today. Instead of separating his league by color, he should just set rules that govern the style of play. I think he could fill the league with people from all races who want to play a slower paced, "gentleman's" version of basketball, it's just who the hell is gonna watch it. The most entertaining thing about old school basketball is the shorts they wore anyways, so I hope he plans on bringing those back. This day in age, people want to see high flying dunks, not a finger-roll, regardless of how smooth and buttery. I can see where he is going, trying to bring back the styles of Pistol Pete, Larry Bird, and Jerry West, but they don't NEED to be white to bring back the classic moves. Thu, 4 Mar 2010 18:55:39 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/why-is-this-racist-really__trashed/#IDComment59774377 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/whats-with-the-theme-parties__trashed/#IDComment59735001 Theme parties seem like the last place to find racial issues. Like most people said, Its more like a time to dress up and act like a fool. I think certain themes, perhaps if someone said, "let's dress like rappers, or b-boys, or gangsters" well, a stereotype will probably be sourced for an idea for the costume, but how else would someone recognize you? If I see a dude in a viking helmet and a huge clock on his neck, Im guessing he wants to be Flavor Flav, well, dont you think Flavor Flav created an image that invites mockery? or exploitation? I remember when Dave Chappelle was on t.v. a lot, he was always exploiting ALL THE stereotypes, because there funny! If you aren't the stereotypical black person, what do you care!? I see stereotypical "white trash" imitations and impersonations in the white community, I think it's just a joke, we understand what separates our real selves from the stereotypical image. Thu, 4 Mar 2010 13:33:58 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/whats-with-the-theme-parties__trashed/#IDComment59735001 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/lgbt-class-question-one__trashed/#IDComment57703916 I don't think it matters as long as the parents can assume full responsibility of the raising child. I know I've learned a lot from my father that I would never have learned from my mother, which leads me to believe that a kid would learn more from parents of both sex. BUT Im not saying a child with two mothers or two fathers couldn't learn the same things. I think a father teaches his son things he wouldn't teach his daughter, so it's possible two woman wouldn't teach a boy some of the things a man would teach his son. From my perspective, a father teaches a son more street smarts than his mother. But back to the basic subject of adopting a child, I think adoptions are great as long as the child is taken care of and given the best life possible. Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:36:51 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/lgbt-class-question-one__trashed/#IDComment57703916 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/lgbt-class-question-six__trashed/#IDComment57700765 I would agree with what you said about the media's role. Another post mentioned that it is always two really good looking women that are kissing in mass media, which I also agree with. The countless numbers of beer commercials showing girls kissing proves it as a marketing tool, which I would say works in the beer drinking community. Women are generally the sex symbols in our society, and corporations have been using women to catch peoples eyes for years. I think we see sexual behavior between women now because our society is always pushing the envelope as to what is too explicit, and now women kissing on t.v is accepted. BUT, like its been said, lesbians aren't represented on t.v and in porn the way they are in real life. The cosmetic versions are just eye candy and are accepted because females sell more sex than males, especially when it comes to gay and lesbian sexuality. Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:03:42 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/lgbt-class-question-six__trashed/#IDComment57700765 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/why-is-the-conversation-always-about-black-and-white-people__trashed/#IDComment56592421 OR, maybe those people don't feel the need to be identified as oppressed. They would rather look at their own race in a better light. I mean, if you were oppressed, would you want to be the subject of conversation all the time? If you feel like you need to be treated differently, why wouldn't you start by treating yourself differently. I don't know much about how American Indians are treated these days, but I can't say I hear them talking about inequality as much as other minorities. I might be wrong, but what if American indians want to move on and forget about the past, maybe they would rather stick together on the reservations because it makes them more comfortable. I dont know, Sam said we don't hear much about the Native Americans, I wonder if it's because they don't want to talk to us still. Sat, 13 Feb 2010 03:50:18 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/why-is-the-conversation-always-about-black-and-white-people__trashed/#IDComment56592421