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14 comments posted · 1 followers · following 0

11 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - Creationist Bible grou... · 1 reply · -2 points

Dear KevinDar, You are making a lot of assumptions - have you ever thought whether they are correct? On numbers of scientists, why not look at Project Steve on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Steve
Did you look at the web link to Biologos? http://biologos.org/
Truth is a central question in Christianity - without that the central message of the Gospel falls. And Truth is exactly what is brought into question by creationism. Is the church into bad science, or is the church into salvation - it cannot have both. Here is a well known evangelist on the subject:

I don't think that there's any conflict at all between science today and the Scriptures. I think that we have misinterpreted the Scriptures many times and we've tried to make the Scriptures say things they weren't meant to say, I think that we have made a mistake by thinking the Bible is a scientific book. The Bible is not a book of science. The Bible is a book of Redemption, and of course I accept the Creation story. I believe that God did create the universe. I believe that God created man, and whether it came by an evolutionary process and at a certain point He took this person or being and made him a living soul or not, does not change the fact that God did create man. ..... whichever way God did it makes no difference as to what man is and man's relationship to God.

Billy Graham in conversation, David Frost (author), 1997.

11 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - Creationist Bible grou... · 4 replies · +3 points

Dear KevinDar, No problem with God creating the universe. But what has that got to do with scientific theories - is the Bible a science text book? In this mess of propaganda, many things are not what they seem. Instead of making statements like `many scientists question', why not read what some evangelical scientists actually say:
http://biologos.org/

11 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - ... and here\'s how to... · 17 replies · -1 points

They are stating that there is no contradiction between Christianity and science. Their point of view is slanted to showing this at length, but that is unfortunately required because of the problems caused by creationism or `intelligent design'. As I hope I have made clear, science and religion are about different things. Those who believe in Christianity however believe that God is the ultimate origin of the universe. I know of no scientific observation that disagrees with this, nor do I know of one that `proves' it.

11 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - ... and here\'s how to... · 19 replies · +4 points

And since I want to see now negative my rating can become I will also give that link to evangelical scientists again:
http://biologos.org/

My excuse: It is about time that some creationists saw an alternative to what they have been told so far, and I have not the time to give all the information required to make them see that creationism is neither sensible from a Christian nor a scientific point of view. If you want to see that there need not be a destructive and pointless war between Christianity and science, read the link. If not, give me a thumbs down and help my score! If you read it, you will see that it is nothing to do with intelligent design. :)

11 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - ... and here\'s how to... · 1 reply · +3 points

lrc1981 "It is, at it's core, the issue of whether God exists and created the Earth, or whether he didn't." Is the existence of God to be proved by science? Look there - a sign that God exists! The problem with that is that it runs contrary to the Gospel. Look at the temptation of Jesus - did Jesus give the sign that Satan suggested at the heart of the Jewish religion? Another case:

Matthew: 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous
generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Shall we seek a sign from science that God exists? From a creator God who could have the written the Bible in the sky in letters light years high if He had wanted to give us a sign?

Of course, the irony is that in claiming to `prove' that God exists, creationism actually turns people away fro God by seeming to put the scriptures in conflict with observing God's universe.

Science says nothing about whether God exists or not - it is only concerned with observation, prediction and experiment. The Bible is not a science text book. Now maybe THAT should end the debate.

11 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - Why Christians reject ... · 2 replies · -3 points

And here is a modern evangelist on the same message, that the Church's business is salvation, not pointless `scientific' speculation: Billy Graham in conversation, David Frost (author), 1997.

I don't think that there's any conflict at all between science today and the Scriptures. I think that we have misinterpreted the Scriptures many times and we've tried to make the Scriptures say things they weren't meant to say, I think that we have made a mistake by thinking the Bible is a scientific book. The Bible is not a book of science. The Bible is a book of Redemption, and of course I accept the Creation story. I believe that God did create the universe. I believe that God created man, and whether it came by an evolutionary process and at a certain point He took this person or being and made him a living soul or not, does not change the fact that God did create man. ..... whichever way God did it makes no difference as to what man is and man's relationship to God.

11 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - Why Christians reject ... · 0 replies · +2 points

It is not a matter of true or not true. The problem is that the Bible was never meant to be a science text book. Can you derive the velocity of light from Genesis? No - so does this mean that Genesis is wrong - of course not, it was never supposed to answer such questions.

It is quite correct that Biblical scholars were alarmed at the damage that trying to force a pseudo-scientific interpretation on scripture was doing to Christianity. They realised that their business was salvation, not pointless speculation about the scientific meaning of a word. However this can be traced to rather earlier than the end of the first milennium - here is Augustine of Hippo (354-430 A.D.), The Literal Meaning of Genesis, trans. J.H. Taylor in Ancient Christian Writers, Newman Press, 1982, volume 41.

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.

In the last sentence Augustine seems quoting from the following Biblical passage (new KJV):

1 Timothy 1:3 3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia—remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.

11 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - Giving status to the l... · 0 replies · +3 points

But what has the Bible got to do with creationism? There is enough theological evidence against trying to force a pseudo-scientific interpretation on Genesis to not even make it necessary to look at the vast amount of scientific evidence...

11 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - Pastor has to accept t... · 46 replies · -7 points

Faith. You may not like it but that is what it comes down to. :) Faith that God exists and that He brings value to lives. And that you are rather stuck with - religion is one of those things that go along with man it seems, for whatever reason. As the archbishop of Canterbury once noted, the choice is really between `good' and `bad' religion, the no religion option is not really on the menu of global choices (as opposed to a personal decision to be an atheist). As a Christian I would hope that you would take Jesus more seriously. As a father, and someone with an interest in continuing humane life on this planet, I would hope that you might support `good' religion (for this purpose, simply that recognising human rights and the reality of the world we live in) against `bad' religion when the chips are down.

11 years ago @ http://www.belfasttele... - Pastor has to accept t... · 48 replies · -1 points

Why would God want to manipulate evolution? That sounds like a bad mechanic having to continually recall a car to a garage just because they can't get it right the first time (the `god of intelligent design' comes to mind here - and intelligent design is certainly NOT what that website is about). I did say that there was no scientific evidence FOR or AGAINST God. That is perfectly consistent with the statements of Jesus in the Gospels.