IntenseDebate - frogsinmysocks

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - ConHome's survey. Our ... · 1 reply · +1 points

Judging from the comments of remainers and government loyalists, they are basing their hopes for a future GE on the presumed inability of the BP to address issues other than Brexit in a way which satisfies leavers of both the left and the right. They think that the BP will be a one-trick pony, unable to settle on a full range of policies. I think they're in for a nasty surprise. IMHO, one of the main reasons for supporting the BP is standing together with those of all classes who have been hard hit by globalisation and Euromania. That includes traditional Labour voters in post-industrial areas, many of whom voted Tory, when it still looked as if the Tory party was determined to deliver a proper Brexit. Such people tend to be socially conservative, so they may well have much more in common with traditional conservatives than they do with Corbynistas or Blairites or Cameroons. Without the drag of ill-feeling left over from the 1980's, the BP may be more congenial to them than the current Tory party. It seems to me that the BP may well the proper place for genuinely One Nation conservatives. Farage seems to thinks so - the BP's candidates for the European election are very diverse; it's clearly part of the message.

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - ConHome's survey. Our ... · 2 replies · +1 points

I presume you're taking a knock at the ERG? The deferral is principally due to remainers of all parties, who clearly outnumber the ERG.

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - Stephen Lynch: The Tor... · 0 replies · +1 points

Quite.

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - Stephen Lynch: The Tor... · 0 replies · +1 points

Too late.

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - Stephen Lynch: The Tor... · 0 replies · +1 points

Whatever the remainers and the party establishment feel about Boris, they'd better give the members the chance to vote for him, for their own sakes. Their fundamental problem is that they are perceived to be anti-democratic, manipulating and abusing the rules and procedures of the party and parliament to get their own way against the ordinary members and the leave-voting public. They can't begin to restore trust by choosing a leader in a way which adds yet another offence of the same sort to their criminal record. That would tarnish the new leader from the start.

One of the main things that the party needs to do, if it is to have any chance of recovery, is to become clearly more democratic. That means giving more power to the members, and in particular, making the leadership selection procedure much less biased in favour of the MPs. If they can't change the rules quickly enough, then MPs need to swallow their pride and give the members the choice between the 2 candidates they actually like best - Boris or Raab.

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - Stephen Lynch: The Tor... · 0 replies · +1 points

Spot on.

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - Our survey. Party memb... · 0 replies · +1 points

:)

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - Our survey. Party memb... · 0 replies · +1 points

Integration with Europe is not the same thing as integration with the EU. We can, as you say, easily leave the EU. We are unavoidably part of Europe, as a matter of geographical and historical fact. IIRC, Boris has made this point eloquently and at length.

No rational person claims that we could leave the EU and keep the benefits intact. (And don't quote Hannan at me. The famous claim is not as clear as you think it is, in part because Hannan demonstrably misquoted himself during the interview. Search and you will find. In any case, Hannan was not in a position to promise anything whatsoever.)

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - Our survey. Party memb... · 0 replies · +1 points

For want of something better. But now there is something better - TBP.

Better dump May quick, or Farage will chew your bones.

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - Our survey. Party memb... · 2 replies · +1 points

Quite. They selectively remember a few atypical utterances and forget the main thrust of the argument from both sides. In particular, both Cameron and Osborne made it very clear that leaving the EU entailed leaving the SM. They didn't talk much about the CU, but Farage made it clear that leaving the CU was also a requirement. As for the main Leave campaign, their mantra was Take Back Control, which above all means leaving the ECJ. You can't refuse the jurisdiction of the ECJ and remain in either the SM or the CU.

Remainers like to confuse the argument by referring to certain leaver prophecies of a good deal with the EU. These were not part of the referendum question, nor were they promises, because the people who made them were quite obviously not in a position to make promises about a future deal. They were statements of personal belief, and only a complete fool would ever have taken them as guarantees. Certain remainers like to claim that they were such fools, but I suspect that they are not in fact so stupid, merely misrepresenting the facts about their own past beliefs.

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