en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/178523 Comments by fartherleft http://election.rabble.ca/post/55049829#IDComment8784443 I will admit that some people do get more conservative as they get older, cautious might even be a better description. I only have to look at my siblings to see that. Then again, some of us get more radical. I will also admit to telling my daughter that she is okay being a Marxist because she had plenty if time to modify her position as she got older. Obviously, platitudes don't work at getting people out to vote. Monetary incentives and legal sanctions aren't a solution either. Education, and systemic reform of the electoral system might help. Sat, 18 Oct 2008 07:54:17 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/55049829#IDComment8784443 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54704592#IDComment8766823 You don't vote and nothing will ever change. Posting your complaints on a forum such as this doesn't influence anyone. If you want to change things, you have to vote. If you really want to change things you have to join a political party and work for the change you want. Your position is simply laziness clothed in self-righteousness. Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:32:28 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54704592#IDComment8766823 http://election.rabble.ca/post/55049829#IDComment8766673 You guess retired life is boring!!! I am retired, and I am not bored. I made the time to vote because I have been around long enough to know that when I don't vote we will end up with a government that will cause no end of damage to my lifestyle and what I want from my society. I also note that you have stated that the younger people are the progressive demographic. Another generalization that is without substance. Young people who don't have the time or patience do deal with a long drawn out voting process may find themselves with nothing but time when the economy is mismanaged to the point of destruction and the social safety net is in tatters because right wing economic policies such as those espoused by Milton Friedman. Unemployment is much more boring than retirement. Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:27:34 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/55049829#IDComment8766673 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54797427#IDComment8766393 Clearly we are in a catch-22 situation here. Because government is trying to cut its costs related to education, educational institutions then opt to solicit funding from anyone with the ability to make a donation. Unfortunately, corporations are in a position to make large donations and reap the public relations and tax benefits from these. Unions, (where this discussion began), don't have access to large pools of capital, nor do the many other organizations who do what they can because they feel it is the right thing to do. By the same token, they generally aren't able to reap a tax benefit from their generosity. We are in complete agreement that right wing politicians do not value education. One only needs to look back to Mike Harris' regeime in Ontario. If it wasn't reading writing and arithmetic, it was not needed. The educational system in this province is still paying the price for that mismanagement. We are in agreement that this problem will not be alleviated by the right, it is an issue that will only be dealt with by a progressive government. Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:18:52 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54797427#IDComment8766393 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54797427#IDComment8721853 Further to my above comments, the National offices of trade unions are also supportive of education in this country. It is also a policy of the CAW, including at the national level, to support education. (e.g. at McMaster University for one). I would also like to clarify that I was not intending to sound like I was going off on WilliamOntario . Education funding and corporate interference is one of my hot button issues... Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:24:53 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54797427#IDComment8721853 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54797427#IDComment8710713 I have to take issue with your argument about trade unions not putting some of their money towards education on at least two levels. Firstly, when I was a member of the executive board of a larger trade union local we regularly approved donations to the university, colleges, and high schools in our area. These donations covered a wide area of support for these institutions, and included scholarships, bursaries, and generalized support for the given institutions. As a representative to the local labour council I can attest that this pattern of support was mirrored by the labour council and other member trade union locals. I will agree that our level of support could not match the dollar figures of the major multinational corporations in our area, but then our budget couldn't match theirs either. By the same token, we did not get the press for our donations, even though our support was on an ongoing, year-in year-out, basis. Secondly, because the corporations are able to donate large sums, they will invariably insist on public recognition for their dollars in the media and on buildings and programs, (e.g. Rogers School of Business). In addition, in our area they often insisted upon an ongoing influence in the affairs of the education institution in the form of membership on boards of governors, and an influence in course content and academic direction. Finally, your comment implies that union's have funding levels on the same level as those available to corporations. That is simply not true. Further, the constraints imposed on these donations are different. Unions get their funding from the dues of the members. It is the member's money and the leadership must insure that any funding programs are in line with the expectations and wishes of the membership, who, elect their leaders democratically, and who vote for dues increases, and depending upon the local in question may also be voting whether of not they will give their approval for larger donations. On a personal note, I don't want to go anywhere near your notion that our educational system or its funding, should be patterned after that in the US. I feel that education is not only a right, it is an absolute necessity if Canada is to grow and prosper in the global economy as it is now structured. As such I am all in favour of fully paid tuition for institutes of higher learning. Anything less will allow us to slowly slide into an educational system that is geared to those with an economic advantage, as opposed to those who have the academic qualifications but not the economic where-with-all. I am also in favour of grants for study aids such as books, software and membership and attendance in academic societies and conferences. Low cost student loans to cover living expenses are also the sort of program that I would approve of. Finally, before someone goes off on me for being some kind of left wing socialist, I will save you the time and plead guilty at the outset. That being said, I have stated that I think that education is a right and a necessity. I also think that those who think that they have been successful after graduation and did it all themselves are either fooling themselves or trying to delude everyone else. Anyone who achieves a major level of success in our society has either done it with the help of the society, (education, opportunity, social safety net etc.) or they have done it illegally, (drug-dealing, fraud, theft, or predatory capitalism etc.) As for your comment that 2/3 of your tuition being paid for by the state and that you had to work hard to get to where you are. I think that is a failure of our system, and a mark of your drive and ambition. Also it speaks to a good deal of luck on your part. Many are left on the wayside due to circumstances beyond their control. Our society needs to be graded on the level of help it provides to its members and not the level of self-aggrandizing corporate donations provided to the select few. Thu, 16 Oct 2008 09:34:28 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54797427#IDComment8710713 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54746391#IDComment8664023 With the right wing crying foul that the BQ has fifty seats and doesn't run a national campaign, I am inclined to think that they should expand their horizons a bit. With respect to Duncan Cameron's comments, they are beginning to look like a viable home for a thinking left wing vote... Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:16:16 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54746391#IDComment8664023 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54741389#IDComment8663953 "Are they hallucinating on petroleum fumes?" There may actually be something resulting from all of those sour gas wells... Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:12:39 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54741389#IDComment8663953 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54722740#IDComment8663933 Proportional representation is a more pressing issue than that of Senate reform. Harper has it backwards, but the voting public doesn't seem to be able to grasp more complex issues, especially if the waters are muddied by special interest groups determined to maintain the status quo, Sadly, I don't expect to see it in my lifetime. Wed, 15 Oct 2008 19:10:27 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54722740#IDComment8663933 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54175010#IDComment8405053 A well intentioned, misguided politician can, in our system, cause permanent damage. This is especially true of someone like Harper, who has been widely, and correctly, characterized as an idealogue. The problem with the Conservative Party is that they have found a way to become a force in Canadian politics through the use of our "first by the post" electoral system and by uniting with, (buying out) the old Progressive Conservative party. With a divided left, they are able to get control of the levers of power without actually having the support of the majority of the electorate. This they feel is good enough to change the entire direction of the country. Yes he may be well intentioned, but that doesn't mean he has the best intentions of the majority of Canadians in mind. Recently Tom Flanagan, (read Conservative Party Hack), stated that the right had found a way to "win" and were going to use it while they could, the left could do the same if they wanted. What has to happen is that the left has to gain control of government and reform our voting system. Unfortunately, once a party is in control, it is in their best interest to maintain the status quo. Perhaps a coalition government could make this a priority... Mon, 13 Oct 2008 09:31:13 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/54175010#IDComment8405053 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53711720#IDComment7892983 For crimes such as this, the Conservative government of Steven Harper must be removed from office. The actions of the Federal Government are unconscionable. Harper's apology to the first nations with regard to the residential schools was clearly just window dressing for the election he knew was coming. His actions speak louder than his words. Make no mistake, I hold Stephen Harper, as the Prime Minister personally responsible for this atrocity. Wed, 8 Oct 2008 21:06:56 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53711720#IDComment7892983 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53670115#IDComment7891943 This is all part of the Conservative plan to convert the Canadian economy into a commodities warehouse for the US. Short term jobs, long term environmental consequenses, big profits for the multinationals that now control the hollowed out resources industries, (Inco, Falconbridge, Alcan, Western Oil Sands, LionOre Mining, PrimeWest Energy Trust etc.). Profits, incidentally that are moved offshore and provide little or no longterm benefits for the citizens of this country. Damn, its getting really difficult trying to cut off all of the tentacles of the neo-cons ongoing rape of this country's assets. Wed, 8 Oct 2008 20:33:29 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53670115#IDComment7891943 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53654648#IDComment7891633 Some great buying opportunities in the stock market eh? Sounds like the PM has just given Canadians a hot tip. I wish I had money to act on that, but I am retired and the policies of Harper and Bush have left me a little short, me and millions of others... Wed, 8 Oct 2008 20:23:51 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53654648#IDComment7891633 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53629693#IDComment7870233 Given Harper's lack of commitment to a pledge he signed, how can he be trusted to provide a government that is cognizant of the needs of the populace and will work to provide solutions that meet those needs. He and his party cannot be trusted with the levers of power. They are too much into social engineering and experimentation... Harper's is not the, "steady hand at the tiller", that he would like the electorate to believe. He is more likely to toss a drowning populace an anchor than a seat on the lifeboat. Wed, 8 Oct 2008 11:26:57 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53629693#IDComment7870233 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53636796#IDComment7869883 Lets hope that Harper's attempts at complete control of the election campaign begin to wear thin and leave so little room for the CPC to maneuver that any attempts to woo the electorate at these late stages of the campaign hamstring their program and we get a CPC in opposition, where they rightly belong. They are in real terms a fringe party with a leader with delusions of grandeur. Time to unite the left and keep these people on the outside. Wed, 8 Oct 2008 11:18:14 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53636796#IDComment7869883 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53217324#IDComment7586643 Sooooo!!!! Conservatives will have no problem selling out the country and its future... In this case it is clear that you don't have to dig deep to find an agenda, its not hidden, its laying out there right in the gutter. Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:34:50 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53217324#IDComment7586643 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53133923#IDComment7575103 ... Voters have short memory of boom times and long, often imperfect remembrance of tough economic times. It is unfortunate that the NDP were in government during a recession. Unfortunately, although I am in general agreement with them on most of their major positions, if they were to win this election they would have to accept that they would be taking the blame for the current economic uncertainties. When in doubt, during an election, I have to defer to the wisdom of my immigrant grand-mother who saw more turmoil, and political upheaval in her lifetime than I would wish on anyone. She said, that when the Conservatives were in power, working people always were in for tough times. She thought the Liberals were okay, but she always voted CCF and later in life, NDP. Her position was if you carried a lunchbucket and voted Conservative you were probably mentally unhinged. In the end, I don't think the New Democrats should be held accountable for the Rae Days which most people never understood in the first place, and voters should credit them with a little intelligence. People learn from their mistakes. The NDP under Jack Layton is a different party than that of Bob Rae. As for the Harper comment that the NDP has an "old socialist approach", what is wrong with that! The neo-conservative approach of Stephen Harper, Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of Economics has been thoroughly discredited by the economic meltdown now occuring in the US. Sun, 5 Oct 2008 08:25:09 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53133923#IDComment7575103 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53133923#IDComment7574973 I once heard an interview with Bob Rae in which he explained what went wrong, in his view, when the NDP was in power in Ontario. At the time of the election the economy was just beginning to slip into recession and the Party, in an attempt to protect everyone living in Ontario, attempted to spend their way out of the downturn. Unfortunately, it lasted longer and was deeper than expected and they ran out of money. They continued to try and mitigate the economic damage through a number of measures designed to reduce the pain without bancrupting the province, Hence the "infamous" Rae Days. These were designed to spread the pain over a large group rather than resorting to layoffs and job elimination on a wider scale. The end result was the alienation of a large power base in the unions. Many of those who complained about the loss of wages were not really going through a difficult period and jumped on the bandwagon of complainers. Some really suffered financial hardship, and it is not my intent to belittle that. The final problem was that, by his own admission, these measures cost the NDP the next election. The people voted for Mike Harris. I would suggest that he was a much bigger disaster as a Premier in our province. My family suffered minimally through the recession and the Rae government. Harris almost destroyed us financially. At any rate, the rather long-winded background above leads to my point, that in the sitting government in times of economic uncertainty will undoubtedly end up wearing the blame for all of the financial turmoil endured by the voters. I don't believe that the NDP were unmitigated disasters while in government... Sun, 5 Oct 2008 08:16:02 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/53133923#IDComment7574973 http://election.rabble.ca/post/52939636#IDComment7545683 Harper looked "Shifty", and still hasn't put out a platform that will allow people to decide in a rational way what they are voting for. Then again, I suspect the strategy is that to put forward a platform will open the CPC up to criticism. Apparently this is something Harper can't handle. Fri, 3 Oct 2008 19:55:16 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/52939636#IDComment7545683 http://election.rabble.ca/post/52775308#IDComment7524813 You are entitled to your opinion, and I can respect that. The issue I have with your position, is the extreme group, albeit a minority, who wish to impose their view on the majority and in some cases are willing to use measures that make a mockery of their supposedly superior moral view. This group of extremists, when they make the prime time news, tend to be mostly male for some reason I can't fathom. Unfortunately, the subject of abortion tends to be extremely polarizing and as a result there will likely never be a consensus of agreement. I think the best we could hope for is a live and let live truce, and leave this difficult choice as a personal decision for those who have to make it. I am pro-choice probably to the same extent you are pro-life. Fri, 3 Oct 2008 08:56:48 +0000 http://election.rabble.ca/post/52775308#IDComment7524813