en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/19357982 Comments by fantasto https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/01/tory-optimism-about-the-next-election-is-at-its-highest-since-august-but-is-still-only-half-the-level-of-april.html#IDComment1056188283 Well, as working-class and minority youth overwhelmingly supported Labour at the last election, I do quite fancy my chances, thanks. Also, if you think that these last seven years of destroying public services, escalating a housing crisis and increasing the debt-load on aspirational young people have done anything to help them 'earn money and succeed in life', then, you are in even more trouble than I thought. The Tories have kicked the foot-ladder from beneath most working-class young and minority people. Also - how, exactly, does dribble-mouthed homophobia help your cause? Tue, 2 Jan 2018 16:22:16 +0000 https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/01/tory-optimism-about-the-next-election-is-at-its-highest-since-august-but-is-still-only-half-the-level-of-april.html#IDComment1056188283 https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/01/tory-optimism-about-the-next-election-is-at-its-highest-since-august-but-is-still-only-half-the-level-of-april.html#IDComment1056185872 Since many of 'the Corbyn youth' were just under 50 (Labour won with every demographic under the age of 49), then I sincerely doubt this. The truth is that the Tories have stained their reputation with my generation (millennials) and the one above mine (Gen X), with nearly 8 years of austerity, right-wing culture wars and now the isolationism and xenophobia of Brexit. The Tories represent pretty much the antithesis, qualitatively, of the two generations I mention. The Tory base is Baby Boomer - those shaped by decades of right-wing media hegemony and very successful propaganda valorising selfish individualism, deregulation and eurosceptic nationalism. As I say, those things are antithetical to me and my friends. The result of the next election, whenever it comes, should clarify this for you sharply. Tue, 2 Jan 2018 15:22:22 +0000 https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/01/tory-optimism-about-the-next-election-is-at-its-highest-since-august-but-is-still-only-half-the-level-of-april.html#IDComment1056185872 https://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2017/12/the-private-sector-would-be-mad-to-try-to-buddy-up-to-mcdonnell.html#IDComment1054684151 One reason you're losing the argument with those of us who vote Labour is the maddening obtuseness of your criticisms. Nobody, but nobody, believes Labour will render the state in the shape of North Korea. As soon as you begin to wave around the names of these autocratic regimes you lose many people's attention and sympathy. It's just wild, hysterical and bears resemblance to the tabloids that support your party. Corbyn and McDonnell are democratic socialists. Their plans are far more closely correlated to the German Social Democrat's investment boom of the 1990s (when much of the infrastructure that powers Germany to this day was built, rather than during Merkel's tenure) than they are with the autocratic regimes you note. They're post-Keynesian, rather than Marxist - which rather makes sense when you consider that Labour have been advised, early in Corbyn's leadership, by an Economic Advisory Board that consisted of the Nobel-winning Joseph Stiglitz, Mariana Mazzucato, Ann Pettifor (who was at Labour conference this year) and Thomas Piketty. You also forget that John McDonnell is a meticulous bureaucrat and organizer - he has been his whole life. The very last thing he'd want to do, after all of these years on the margins, is seriously screw up the economy. Policy will be enacted tentatively, tested in certain areas, rather than rolled out in one go. Also, I notice you often mention Momentum with the same hysterical note that colours everything else you say regarding the Labour Party. Momentum are an organizing tool - a means for those of us on the Left to gather canvassers, to make campaign videos and, occasionally, to make sure that, in internal elections, our policy ideas aren't diluted by the Blairites. I've met Momentum organizers - as well as lots of idealistic young people, they've been careworkers, teachers, grandparents and, in one case, a retired security guard. They're not the violent lynch-mob you envision in fidget dreams. They're also not "in control". Labour members - who are enthused by the Party's direction - are. Is that such a bad thing? Wouldn't many of you like a more democratic Conservative Party? Anyhow. Once we've got all of this straight, we might debate with more acuity, moderation, and find - perhaps - that we might not disagree on *everything* regarding politics and life. Imagine that! Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:51:53 +0000 https://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2017/12/the-private-sector-would-be-mad-to-try-to-buddy-up-to-mcdonnell.html#IDComment1054684151 https://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2017/10/robert-halfon-a-new-political-movement-is-slowly-emerging-in-our-party.html#IDComment1050878580 If that's going to be your approach to Unions, then you need to extend that to corporate donations, too. Otherwise it simply looks like a ploy to divest the Labour Party of funds and realign Unions to a political cause you believe in. I think your argument, however, is fundamentally flawed. The Labour and Union movement are inextricable, one emerging, very naturally, from the other. Their history and their struggle is united by the concessions they've wrought from the bosses, and the bosses' parliamentary representation, the Tories. All of this nonsense about the Tories being the 'True Workers Party' is very transparent. It's an attempt to reconcile two opposing forces: workers' hard-fought agency and capital, and the patrician classes who mostly look to deprive them of both. Stay in your lane, guys. It just looks silly to everyone watching. Wed, 11 Oct 2017 13:36:57 +0000 https://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2017/10/robert-halfon-a-new-political-movement-is-slowly-emerging-in-our-party.html#IDComment1050878580 https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/10/the-hollow-hall.html#IDComment1050566402 "Social media revolutions" tend to be organic, driven by interest and connectivity. You can't simulate that. You can't achieve virality if the audience doesn't associate themselves with the content. And believe me, the biggest, most active demographics online do not want to associate themselves with CCHQ's content. Thu, 5 Oct 2017 12:31:42 +0000 https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/10/the-hollow-hall.html#IDComment1050566402 https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/10/the-hollow-hall.html#IDComment1050566190 "There are very few ways in which Conservative Party Conference is really a conference at all. It’s many things – a reunion, a tribal gathering, a four-day party, a convention – but it is not meaningfully a conference [...]" Well, quite. And the "Conservative Party" is not really a political party in any meaningful sense, either - but a lobbying group for elite interests. That's why it resembles a convention - a corporate convention. It is closer to an event held for the fossil fuel, tobacco or agri-business lobby than any democratic gathering. This also reflects the deep emptiness at the heart of the party: its overriding interest is in sustaining power, but power for power's sake, power for big private interests, while being absent of any solutions to this nation's decline. A managed decline that keeps the worst of it from hurting the wealthiest among us... Thu, 5 Oct 2017 12:26:28 +0000 https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/10/the-hollow-hall.html#IDComment1050566190 https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/10/hammond-warns-of-the-past-as-voters-wonder-about-the-future.html#IDComment1050412894 If the lesson you took from the 70s was that "socialism" doesn't work (when, in numerous countries - for instance, Sweden, Denmark and the UK throughout the postwar period - it worked just fine) then I'm afraid you weren't paying quite enough attention. The 70s were a period of international instability - the collapse of the monolithic Bretton Woods system and the readjustment to a new volatility, and the oil crisis, were the key events. It is a very parochial analysis that locates Britain's strife in solely this or that domestic government - remember, the three-day week occurred under the Tories. I also wonder if some commenting here fully comprehend what a Corbyn government will entail. It will not be isolationist, autocratic statism - not Zimbabwe, as some have decided in their hysteria. There'll be a free market. We'll still trade with the world. Environmental and safety regulations will be respected and tightened. Taxes will rise, but to lower-than-continental levels. There'll be investment, indeed, to facilitate a new wave of Green Tech, software development, AI, and online entrepreneurs. As Yanis Varoufakis has pointed out, riffing on Harold Wilson, Labour will seek to harness the 'cool breeze of green technologies'. There will be some direction from the state, as is the case with *nearly every other* European country taking a strategic, long-view of their economy. Germany does it. It works. Let us talk clearly and honestly about each party's objectives and not fall into tabloid alarmism. Tue, 3 Oct 2017 00:51:10 +0000 https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/10/hammond-warns-of-the-past-as-voters-wonder-about-the-future.html#IDComment1050412894 https://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2017/08/freemans-definitely-non-glastonbury-style-conservative-ideas-festival.html#IDComment1047799963 The reason there isn't a 'Conservative stall at the many and varied festivals of music' is because no (popular) music festival organiser in their right mind would invite the Conservative party. It would deeply toxify the festival. No one invested in counter-culture wants the Tories anywhere near, for good reason. You might get a stall at a bathroom tile & kitchen warehouse reception, where you can mix with other like-minded individuals. In this vein, I saw a Tory commentator ask recently, 'Why aren't we trying to connect with the youth, through outlets like Vice magazine?' Yes, I could well imagine Vice giving generous coverage to the Tories... that is, I could, if I had just landed from one of the outer moons of Jupiter. Mon, 7 Aug 2017 10:59:36 +0000 https://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2017/08/freemans-definitely-non-glastonbury-style-conservative-ideas-festival.html#IDComment1047799963 http://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2017/07/exclusive-yet-another-momentum-branch-backs-deselection-of-non-corbynite-mps.html#IDComment1046859053 Why does it bother Tories so much what so-called 'moderate' Labour MPs do with their careers? Do you see Labour supporters demanding that Ken Clarke, Heidi Allen or Anna Soubry do the 'rational thing' and leave the party over a number of profound differences? Also, I think the role of Momentum is being heavily over-egged by Conservatives. Speaking as a campaigner for the Labour party, the truth is that the vast majority of the membership share the same policy objectives as Momentum - which is to have a fully-democratized, progressive party that opposes austerity, supports some nationalization and more conscientious environmental and foreign policies. Much of the organisational work was just carried out by regular members - not Momentum. You might be far more worried that we have a genuinely energized, growing base far *beyond* Momentum. Momentum is simply a (locally influential) node. Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:10:24 +0000 http://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2017/07/exclusive-yet-another-momentum-branch-backs-deselection-of-non-corbynite-mps.html#IDComment1046859053 http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/07/mohammed-abdel-haq-to-win-the-next-election-the-conservatives-need-to-learn-from-corbyn.html#IDComment1046715730 The Conservative party, in itself, is the parliamentary arm of a British establishment committed to tax avoidance in its offshore territories, arms-dealing, that is regressive with regard to climate-change, that has taken an adversarial, parochial approach with our European friends, that has the weight of powerful lobbyists and corporations behind it, that is endorsed by a febrile, xenophobic tabloid press. Quite how you expect to appeal to a demographic that is broadly aware of all of this is beyond me. I'm afraid the age has caught up with you - journalists, bloggers and activists will continually and mercilessly reveal these outlooks, allegiances and biases. Once, when the political narrative was controlled by a number of press barons (who, in their time, were once disruptive upstarts, too) these uncomfortable points were easy to obfuscate. But that time is over. Sat, 15 Jul 2017 12:09:36 +0000 http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/07/mohammed-abdel-haq-to-win-the-next-election-the-conservatives-need-to-learn-from-corbyn.html#IDComment1046715730 http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/07/after-a-turbulent-year-may-still-has-a-chance-to-influence-how-history-will-remember-her.html#IDComment1046640156 What is the point of the Tory party if it's going to have some 'serious tax and spending'? I'm a Labour supporter and a Keynesian, but if you're going to stand for anything at least stand for some sort of coherent economic narrative and ideology. You're Conservatives. If you think tax and spend is irresponsible, then make a serious and sincere case for neoliberalism or Chicago School economics. Maybe you'll get beat - you're likely to, anyhow, in my opinion - but at least voters will know what they voted for and against. As we in Labour found when we attempted to cloak ourselves in a decaffeinated version of your politics, voters don't thank you for it when they can vote for the real thing. Thu, 13 Jul 2017 22:19:57 +0000 http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/07/after-a-turbulent-year-may-still-has-a-chance-to-influence-how-history-will-remember-her.html#IDComment1046640156 http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/07/the-red-tide-of-third-party-campaigns-raises-worrying-questions-about-political-funding.html#IDComment1046307709 I propose the Tory party goes with 'Mere dross jumping on the socialist bandwagon' as its election slogan next time. Fri, 7 Jul 2017 11:46:56 +0000 http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/07/the-red-tide-of-third-party-campaigns-raises-worrying-questions-about-political-funding.html#IDComment1046307709 http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/07/the-red-tide-of-third-party-campaigns-raises-worrying-questions-about-political-funding.html#IDComment1046307447 The BBC? Who've just provided the Tories with a communications director? JHC you guys... Fri, 7 Jul 2017 11:41:17 +0000 http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/07/the-red-tide-of-third-party-campaigns-raises-worrying-questions-about-political-funding.html#IDComment1046307447 http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2017/07/robbie-gibbs-appointment-shows-that-the-tory-family-is-up-for-the-fight-against-corbyn.html#IDComment1046281991 Hi M Federighi, In my opinion, Labour's investment-based program would be more conducive with regards productivity, though, it is a long-term plan, not something that will be ignited within a short while. It would aspire to a type of Green Tech revolution of the like we haven't see here. As Yanis Varoufakis has said, riffing on Harold Wilson, "Not the white heat of technology, but the cool breeze of Green technologies.” Have you seen the recent Labour statement on Brexit? They are united behind the CBI plan. This means that if the deal isn't able to achieve the exact benefits of Single Market membership, we will essentially stay in the SM. It's looking more and more like a fudge - which, in my opinion, is best. With the national anthem stuff - I'm not sure that was intentional, though Corbyn has never been one for all the pomp and pageantry of Empire. And neither have I. I honestly don't mind if he sings the anthem - I don't much like it either. It's an awful dirge steeped in hierarchy and religion. I much prefer the Marseillaise, if I'm honest. Now, that's an anthem! A little bloodthirsty perhaps, but much more rousing than ours. Fri, 7 Jul 2017 00:31:36 +0000 http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2017/07/robbie-gibbs-appointment-shows-that-the-tory-family-is-up-for-the-fight-against-corbyn.html#IDComment1046281991 http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2017/07/robbie-gibbs-appointment-shows-that-the-tory-family-is-up-for-the-fight-against-corbyn.html#IDComment1046271424 Nick, this 'support for our country's enemies' schtick was given a damn good go at the last election (and for the last two years, in all honesty), in case you didn't notice. It didn't really gain any traction as 1) most people struggling to get by really aren't bothered that JC shared a platform with Hezbollah or supported Irish Republicanism and 2) they're quite able to have nuanced opinions about meeting unsavoury factions or criticizing this country's own imperialism. Of course, this is the home of Conservatism, and you can say whatever you jolly well please. But I expected a bit better, if I must say so, than these tired attack lines. One thing I've respected in the best Conservative critics (say, Peter Oborne) is a cool indifference to tabloid hysteria and a proper debate about wider and more pressing issues. Thu, 6 Jul 2017 18:58:40 +0000 http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2017/07/robbie-gibbs-appointment-shows-that-the-tory-family-is-up-for-the-fight-against-corbyn.html#IDComment1046271424 http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2017/07/robbie-gibbs-appointment-shows-that-the-tory-family-is-up-for-the-fight-against-corbyn.html#IDComment1046266791 I've said this elsewhere, but will repost here, as the 'Venezuela' accusation has been flung again: The Labour party prospectus isn't isolationist, autocratic socialism - it's just a more balanced mixed-economy. It's essentially a more patient, long-termist market economy where the state plays a more active role in investment and in patching-up the holes. Check the Labour manifesto - we're not offering 'Venezuela overnight!', or whatever other hysterical example is invoked. The model I'm talking about might be quite difficult to attain in the short term - it would require real work. But the volatile, or impatient, capitalism that has dominated this country since 1979 is failing too many of us. It has to change, and I suspect it will, in the not-too-remote future. Check out some of Jeremy Cliffe's thinking at the Economist on 'Varieties of Capitalism' and what Corbynism might mean in practice. He thinks it would be hard work; moving from a Thatcherite/low-investment economy to a more continental system. He thinks that some cultural factors might be an impediment - but crucially, for me, he said it would not be impossible with political will. So, let's be realistic at least! No more scare-talk of Chavism... it's simply not on the table. Thu, 6 Jul 2017 16:39:32 +0000 http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2017/07/robbie-gibbs-appointment-shows-that-the-tory-family-is-up-for-the-fight-against-corbyn.html#IDComment1046266791 http://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2017/07/momentums-hounding-of-berger-is-a-test-for-anti-corbynite-mps.html#IDComment1046264606 Thanks bluetaff - I hope to argue in a civil manner. Some of my earlier posts were a little condescending - apologize for that. Thu, 6 Jul 2017 15:40:54 +0000 http://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2017/07/momentums-hounding-of-berger-is-a-test-for-anti-corbynite-mps.html#IDComment1046264606 http://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2017/07/momentums-hounding-of-berger-is-a-test-for-anti-corbynite-mps.html#IDComment1046262910 But our prospectus isn't isolationist, autocratic socialism - it's just a more balanced mixed-economy. It's essentially a more patient, long-termist market economy where the state plays a more active role in investment and in patching-up the holes. Check the Labour manifesto - we're not offering 'Venezuela overnight!', or whatever other hysterical example is invoked. The model I'm talking about might be quite difficult to attain in the short term - it would require real work. But the volatile, or impatient, capitalism that has dominated this country since 1979 is failing too many of us. It has to change, and I suspect it will, in the not-too-remote future. Check out some of Jeremy Cliffe's thinking at the Economist on 'Varieties of Capitalism' and what Corbynism might mean in practice. He thinks it would be hard work; moving from a Thatcherite/low-investment economy to a more continental system. He thinks that some cultural factors might be an impediment - but crucially, for me, he said it would not be impossible with political will. So, let's be realistic at least! No more scare-talk of Chavism... it's simply not on the table. Thu, 6 Jul 2017 14:50:03 +0000 http://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2017/07/momentums-hounding-of-berger-is-a-test-for-anti-corbynite-mps.html#IDComment1046262910 http://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2017/07/momentums-hounding-of-berger-is-a-test-for-anti-corbynite-mps.html#IDComment1046261552 If, after all that I've just said, you reduce our reasoning to an offer of 'free money', then I despair. I think this perspective is actually quite interesting: it reveals a profound divide in the worldview of the left and right. We're very happy to pay higher taxes; many of us have finished studying and won't benefit at all from free education or whatever it is you're thinking of. We vote Labour because of qualitative reasons, not purely quantitative ones (a clumsy way of framing it, I know). As far as pecuniary matters: we don't like seeing disabled people pushed to suicide because of a callous DWP; we don't like seeing parents doing a run-round to pay their children's teachers. But, as has been said elsewhere, it's a deep and cultural disconnect; generational, I suspect. It has much more to do with internationalism over nationalism, global collaboration over adversarial parochialism, care for the environment, and the disassembling of old hierarchies. As for the anti-Semitism - I too deplore that side of the hard-left. It's thankfully infrequent, but I acknowledge it's there. But the Tories have run mainstream electoral campaigns (memorably, Zac's against Sadiq Khan) with a very shrill dog-whistle. Labour, as far as I can tell, have been vocally anti-racist and anti-discrimination in theirs. Thu, 6 Jul 2017 14:12:54 +0000 http://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2017/07/momentums-hounding-of-berger-is-a-test-for-anti-corbynite-mps.html#IDComment1046261552 http://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2017/07/momentums-hounding-of-berger-is-a-test-for-anti-corbynite-mps.html#IDComment1046259814 It's not about the employment rate - this is a deceptive measure. It's about the nature - the stability - of that work. Thu, 6 Jul 2017 13:26:25 +0000 http://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2017/07/momentums-hounding-of-berger-is-a-test-for-anti-corbynite-mps.html#IDComment1046259814