en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/1029789 Comments by eucalyptus http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75343411 Have you noticed by chance the hostility towards gays? Much of it comes from people who label themselves as Christians, unfortunately. I can give you numerous examples "God hates gays" etc. I am fully aware of what Christians are doing in the world. Our kids are in a multi-cultural Christian school, we have had a foster child thru a Christian agency, my child and husband are going on a mission trip this summer. My brother-in-law has been to Haiti several times since the earthquake. Shall I go on. My husband grew up in the Reformed tradition. We have family members and friends who are still a part of that denomination. Again, I agree it is possible to not love what your neighbor does and to still love them. I agree. I have that situation with a current neighbor. I just don't understand how an organization who calls themselves Christian can be against anti-discrimination of any law abiding, potentially fellow Christian. Thu, 13 May 2010 23:42:18 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75343411 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75338640 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' It does not say love your neighbor as yourself, as long as they obey all 10 commandments in the exact manner you choose to interpret them. Thu, 13 May 2010 22:57:36 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75338640 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75323020 Ok. So the entire city should not adopt an anti-discrimination law, because it is against Hope College's worldview? Please tell me that is not what you mean. Thu, 13 May 2010 21:00:22 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75323020 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75319049 No one is suggesting they change their religious beliefs. In the Hope situation, no one is asking or expecting anyone to change their beliefs. It is a request for dialogue. Dialogue! Colleges should be one of the first institutions willing to dialogue--they are an intellectual instuition, as you said. If they are that strong in their belief, why not discuss the issue? Reminder: both straight and gay people are requesting the discussion. Is it possible they fear that someone might change their mind? Thu, 13 May 2010 20:27:32 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75319049 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75316605 Almost made a "total depravity" joke, but won't. Agreed, Christians strive toward their goals. But above all else, love. Love your neighbor. How is "we are unwilling to sit down and talk with you" loving your neighbor? This has nothing to do with pre-marital sex, because marriage is currently not an option for gay people, some of whom consider themselves Christians. It has to do with non-acceptance of another and unwillingness to love thy neighbor, because they are different. Yes, I get that it is private property. Hope can do as they choose. Carry on. Thu, 13 May 2010 20:14:10 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75316605 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75308654 That may have been a funny Freudian slip. No marriage outside of sex, hmmmm. That was cute. Please tell me you are not so naive as to think there is no sex outside of marriage on Hope's campus. They are kids, kids do silly things... you know, like spray painting on fences. Hope might need to show mercy. And, besides, just because a student claims to be gay, does not mean he/she is having sex. And, btw, thanks to our laws it is currently impossible for 2 loving gay persons to get married. So they are not allowed to be married, yet are restricted because they are not married. Doesn't work! Thu, 13 May 2010 19:08:53 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75308654 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75308056 Being homosexual is NOT a crime, Einstein! Rape and Pedophilia are. Thu, 13 May 2010 19:03:34 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75308056 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75307878 Amen! Thu, 13 May 2010 19:01:55 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75307878 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75307699 You are so right on, Taurus. This discussion could and should end with this statement. Nothing more to be said. Thu, 13 May 2010 19:00:05 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Should-Holland-ban-discrimination#IDComment75307699 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75163668 I am in full agreement with what you have just said. Without question, mercy should be shown to these kids. I do not believe that was ever in question, but feeling happy to be on common ground. Thu, 13 May 2010 00:53:41 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75163668 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75150664 It was big enough deal to make the news--and big enough for you to get involved in the discussion. I find it interesting how at the end of these discussions you always start referring to me as superior. Sort of the last straw when you run out of other things to say. One might start to think you actually believe it, even when I don't. Wed, 12 May 2010 23:01:45 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75150664 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75138022 Your reply had nothing to do with my prior comment. It would seem you are just making random comments, maybe just to get the last word, I don't know. Oh, and about the Hope College discussion, as you mentioned? I invite anyone who is reading this discussion to take a look at that one. It pertains to Hope's decision not to allow straight and gay individuals to have dialogue on campus. Wed, 12 May 2010 21:31:03 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75138022 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75129394 I feel bad for you. That chip on your shoulder must really weigh you down! Wed, 12 May 2010 20:43:54 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75129394 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75126697 Maybe because as a Christian, we are commanded to love our neighbor. It does not tell us to love our neighbor, AS LONG AS, they are just like me. Or, to only love only the neighbors who are just like me with my narrow WestMI perspective. I pity a child of yours who might come out of the closet one day, or perhaps marry someone of a different race or religion. Wed, 12 May 2010 20:33:40 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75126697 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75123025 So, what is your point? No one would argue with that statement. It is a statement of the obvious! Are we also supposed to accept that your ways are more important? So, it seems! Wed, 12 May 2010 20:23:40 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75123025 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75092228 Way to tell us, WestMIGuy! You really got us good there! You say we are not tolerant of Christians and yet you (presumably a Christian) say "why do they need to be tolerant?" Hmmm... is there some hypocrisy there? I am not suggesting you invite "them" for cocktails or tea or whatever it is you happen to drink. Just don't make people out to be second class just because they are different. Because I prefer to accept my neighbor, regardless of his/her preferred orientation does not make me a "lefty" or intolerant of Christians or people with high IQs, for that matter. For the record, I am a follower of Jesus, but it is "Christians" like yourself that make many of us not want to be associated with that term--esp. here in WestMI. Notice the word Christ in the word Christian. Wed, 12 May 2010 17:26:22 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75092228 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75068655 Here is the other thing. Those teens learned from their parents or friends or some other influential person in their life that it is OK to be hateful. Too bad they were not taught tolerance and kindness. I am not saying they have to agree with homosexuality, but hatred is a completely ineffective way of dealing with one's opinion. What good did it do them?? What did they prove?? Wed, 12 May 2010 14:46:10 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75068655 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75066077 I assume you mean what the teens did was wrong. Am I correct? Wed, 12 May 2010 14:25:42 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75066077 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75065638 Here we go again. The people inside the fence had the absolute right to be there and to do what they were doing. What the teens did was against the LAW. Agree or disagree from a moral standpoint does not matter. What those people were doing was not against the law. Leave them alone! Wed, 12 May 2010 14:22:33 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/teens-confess-in-anti-gay-graffiti-case#IDComment75065638 http://www.woodtv.com/dpps/news/national/west/pair-facing-charges-after-boys-body-found-in-utah-jgr_3354490#IDComment75055759 Way too much sad news! Parents killing their kids, parents neglecting their kids resulting in death, husbands/boyfriends killing the mothers of children. My heart goes out to this boy. It is a tragedy, another tragedy this week. Wed, 12 May 2010 13:01:01 +0000 http://www.woodtv.com/dpps/news/national/west/pair-facing-charges-after-boys-body-found-in-utah-jgr_3354490#IDComment75055759