“Umm, sorry but yes: we do understand logic. What proof do YOU have that god doesnt exist?”

The above statement proves you DO NOT understand logic. If you did, you would know that the burden of proof is on those making the claim. In this case, that’s you, the person claiming that god exists.

Nobody is avoiding the question, but that’s how things work. If you claim you have a five foot diamond in your backyard, it’s up to you to prove that you have it. It’s not up to me to prove you don’t. If that were the case we’d have to try and disprove fairies, unicorns, etc.

Can you prove that the flying spaghetti monster doesn’t exist?

“Umm, sorry but yes: we do understand logic. What proof do YOU have that god doesnt exist?”

The above statement proves you DO NOT understand logic. If you did, you would know that the burden of proof is on those making the claim. In this case, that’s you, the person claiming that god exists.

Nobody is avoiding the question, but that’s how things work. If you claim you have a five foot diamond in your backyard, it’s up to you to prove that you have it. It’s not up to me to prove you don’t. If that were the case we’d have to try and disprove fairies, unicorns, etc.

Can you prove that the flying spaghetti monster doesn’t exist? Where’s your proof?

See how silly that sounds? That’s how silly you sound when you say things like this.

Couple of things...

One, you're making the assumption that all atheists are making the claim, "There is no god". This is inaccurate. Please look at the article on this site regarding the difference between a gnostic atheist and an agnostic atheist. Gnosticism refers to knowledge and theism refers to belief, two different things.

Two, I hope the only reason you're moral is not because you were told to be by an ancient book. If so, please please keep believing in that book. One needs only adopt the axiom that, like me, others would not like to be raped, murdered, etc. Once you do that, it's easy to have a moral compass. No moral law giver is needed to have a moral society. All social groups had basic social mores like not to murder, steal, etc. All these things long pre-date the bible. Far from showing a flaw in atheist logic, you've highlighted a huge flaw in theistic logic. You might want to re-read the bible, the moral law in that book is far different from what we consider moral today.

You should read the article on the difference between theism/atheism/agnosticism. Like many others, you're assuming that "agnostic" is some middle ground in the realm of belief; that's a mistake.

Atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in god. It speaks nothing about what one KNOWS, which is the realm of a/gnosticism.

Hello Erica,

First, thank you for your comment. It takes courage for a 14 year old girl to jump into an online debate like this, kudos to you. It's also clear that you're trying to see the views from all sides, which a lot of people (on both sides) don't do.

Let me next address your concerns about the tone you perceive from some of the Atheists. There are trolls on both sides of the argument. I've received loads of hostility from the religious side of the debate but I don't then assume that all Christians are like the ones being hostile to me, I hope you'll assume the same with non-believers.

Regarding the difference between the scientific explanation of the earth/humanity and religion's explanation, there is a big difference. The big difference is that science doesn't ask you to believe them on faith. If you'd like, there are loads of papers, experiments, etc that prove specific phenomenon, all of which supports the scientific explanation. Taking the example of evolution, there are mountains of evidence across several scientific disciplines (from biology to geology) that all converge on the theory of evolution. Looking at it through the beliefs of a Christian, I think it makes more sense to accept the physical evidence of the creation of God than the text. If the text says the earth was created in 6 literal days, but the physical evidence shows it took millions of years, I would rather assume the text is metaphorical and not literal. I think that makes more sense than to think God is trying to fool people by making the earth look older than the bible says it is.

Regarding Christmas, I'm one of those atheists that celebrates that time of year. Partly because of tradition and partly because it makes things easier since most of my family is still Christian. However, if you look at the origins of Christmas, you'll find that the majority of the holiday is derived from pagan traditions, not Christianity. Wreaths, Christmas trees, candles, gift giving, feast, songs, family time, etc... are all originally pagan traditions from the Winter Solstice celebration. Much of Easter and it's symbolism is pagan as well, from Spring Equinox. This is why you see green imagery, bunnies (symbolism for fertility since most animals mate during spring), the earth coming back to life from winter, etc. Please don't take my word though, feel free to google the origins and read for yourself. The reason Christianity adopted many of these traditions was to ease pagan transition to Christianity.

I hope you continue to seek answers and take part in discussions, knowledge is not the enemy of faith. Thank you again for your response Erica.

~ Rick (Webmaster)

That is mighty Christian of you. I'm sure Jesus would say the same.

Actually only some atheists are making a claim. The claim, "There is no god" is what is called a "gnostic atheist". 99% of atheists are "agnostic atheists". They don't make the positive claim, "there is no god", they simply believe that theists have failed to make arguments to justify the belief in their god. Most atheists are simply people who are not convinced by the evidence presented. Much in the same way you're probably unconvinced by the evidence for Thor. You don't make the positive assertion that "There is no Thor", you simply lack a belief in Thor.

It might help if you read our other article found here: http://thinkreason.net/229/atheist-agnostic/

To say that all atheists are making a claim is inaccurate.

Stalin and Hitler both had mustaches, ergo, mustaches make you a mass murderer!

Checkmate Atheist!!!

You'll probably want to research a bit more the things you "personally know".

Few things...

You rule out the likelihood of an infinite universe and instead posit an infinite "god". This is called special reasoning.

99.99999999% of all life on this planet has gone extinct... not a very good design.

In response to your reasoning about the odds being too improbable, I would reply by saying... If puddles could talk, one might be found to have said, "Wow... this pothole fits me perfectly! It contours every bit of me. In fact, the odds of this pothole fitting me this perfectly are so remote that it must have been designed specifically for me." In other words, the universe wasn't created around us... we evolved to fit in this universe.