en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/764215 Comments by arieakm https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/christian-invaders-the-turnaround__trashed/#IDComment69137777 Here is the last part: Another thing I like about Sam trying to make us understand was him putting it into perspective about what we would do if we were the young Arab/Muslim students looking at the foreign news about the American soldiers. People always talk about how we need to be over there because “they bombed us, so we need to bomb them”. I saw 9/11 first hand and to think that destruction on that scale has been happening for the last 9 years in their country also puts things in perspective. So it is important for everyone to try and understand why these things are happening. I need to say that I do not agree, but I understand. Wed, 21 Apr 2010 04:52:18 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/christian-invaders-the-turnaround__trashed/#IDComment69137777 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/christian-invaders-the-turnaround__trashed/#IDComment69137687 Here is the second part: He wasn’t saying that Christians are really invaders; he was saying that this is the way that Muslims (not all) probably see us as Americans (and most American’s who are Christians) as invaders coming into their land trying to take over, just as we see them as Muslims trying to “infiltrate” the united states and take over. He was trying to get us to see it from a different perspective, yet of course Christians just immediately took the defensive. We as Christians really need to try and look past our hang-ups sometimes and have an open mind. That does not mean that the people and things that try to get us to have an open mind are trying to lure us away from the Lord. I fully support the troops over in Iraq and Afghanistan, but we need to understand those who are our enemies otherwise we will all be forever at war. We will forever be divided and unable to see past our ethnocentricities. Wed, 21 Apr 2010 04:51:53 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/christian-invaders-the-turnaround__trashed/#IDComment69137687 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/christian-invaders-the-turnaround__trashed/#IDComment69137540 Here is the first part:__After this lecture I heard a lot of people talking about how angry they were at Sam for coming at the Christians. This was funny to me because it is a prime example of what he talked about way back in the beginning of class. See, when we are listening to something that we want to hear, and that we agree with then we have an open mind and listen. However when it is something we want nothing to do with then the part of our brain that really allows us to listen and process thoughts shuts down or gets cloudy. I myself am a Christian and I had a few doubts about going to the lecture. He had said in the class before that he would really be “going in” on the Christians and that was the last thing I wanted to hear. But I was surprised in class when the lecture was less about Christians and more about seeing the war from a different perspective. Nothing of what Sam said was surprising to me, because I had educated myself before I had even taken this class, but I was pleased of how he presented the lecture. Wed, 21 Apr 2010 04:51:23 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/christian-invaders-the-turnaround__trashed/#IDComment69137540 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/women__trashed/#IDComment68137496 Fourth and last: And just to have a word on the idea of if women dress for men or if women dress for other women… I would say both. If you are going out with a group of your friends, then yes, you will dress a certain way because your friend is dressed a certain way and you want to look better than her (or him). But if you are going out and you know that you will see a guy there that you like, and who maybe likes you, then of course you are going to spruce yourself up for him because he will see you. It is a messy situation, but I do agree that women, no matter where they are from should support one another. Thu, 15 Apr 2010 04:10:08 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/women__trashed/#IDComment68137496 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/women__trashed/#IDComment68137452 Third: Women are different across cultures and across color (in minor ways). When it comes to the rights that all women should have then even that gets a bit blurry. We as American females may think that genital mutilation is an atrocious monstrous deed that is ruining a female. But in the cultures where it is done some (not all) of those women feel that it is a right of theirs and they want to do it. Same thing with the Middle-Eastern women who wear the hijab. We see it at oppression, yet they see at as freedom from societal pressures of beauty and as a chance for them to be themselves and express their beauty through their confidence. Thu, 15 Apr 2010 04:09:46 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/women__trashed/#IDComment68137452 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/women__trashed/#IDComment68137405 Second: that lead us to be that way? Now I won’t sit here and judge and say that I am a woman who never gets affected by the stress of trying to adhere to the oppressive societal norms that are placed upon women, forcing them to look a certain way, but I do agree with Laurie that something needs to change in order for us to feel comfortable with ourselves. I agree with the girl in the video to which I am responding to a certain extent, when she says that all women are portrayed differently in the media, but if you notice, these women almost always portray a certain stereotype. There is the smart girl, the fat girl, the slut, the girl-next-door, or what have you. Perhaps they are not being scrutinized because of the size of their breasts but they are certainly being put into another box with is another form of societal oppression. Also, she mentioned that we are all women and we are all the same because that link to being the female sex binds us all together. I only partially agree. Thu, 15 Apr 2010 04:09:20 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/women__trashed/#IDComment68137405 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/women__trashed/#IDComment68137316 Here is the first part: It is interesting to me that when women as a collective whole, like in a classroom for instance feel like they are under pressure, or one of them is being put on the spot, or we are talking about a touchy subject, they are quick to come to the others defense and comfort them and say “don’t worry, just be yourself, we are all beautiful.” I also found it interesting that no one was able to answer Laurie’s question, which was its fine that we all should be comfortable, but what are the contributing factors that lead us to be that way? Thu, 15 Apr 2010 04:08:29 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/women__trashed/#IDComment68137316 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/the-white-minorities__trashed/#IDComment64753264 This is an interesting article overall but I have to ask the same question that Sam asked: why is this even being reported on at all? I understand that perhaps non-Hispanic white Americans may feel a certain way about this but it is important to remember that news stores, statistics and even life is subjective. It is something that shifts every day. I remember back in 2008 when a report came out that said by the year 2010 the population of fish that contribute to the food market will be so depleted we will essentially not be able to eat fish anymore. Has that happened? No. Has anyone heard anything about that since? No. perhaps I could be wrong. Perhaps these statistics could be true. However I do not really see a solution to that problem being found right away. I also remember that perhaps 5 years ago a study came out saying that the next generation of children in the united states would be of a mixed race whether that be Asian/black, white/Hispanic, Asian/ Hispanic or any other combination. Like I said, new and statistics are subjective and constantly change. However I do believe there is some truth to this and it may mean that by the year 2050 we will all be living in a very different America. I took the time out to watch the full documentary about Prussian blue, that “white-supremacist” singing duo who put a message of white power into their music. It was really their mother who wanted them to sing about white nationalism and preserving the Aryan race and eventually those girls got tired of it and stopped focusing their music on that. But every time the director of the documentary would get them alone and they would be able to express their real feelings, their mother would find out and make them feel guilty, instilling in them that they were supposed to be white nationalists and going against that meant being race traitors. They were essentially brain washed. Now, I am not saying that if white-people suddenly become the minority in this country they will all become white nationalists, no, but I do agree with Sam in that they may begin to feel a certain way about being that minority and it will not bode well for the relationship that has already come so far (well, better than in the recent past) between whites and black and brown people. I am sure, also, that even though minorities will now be the majority they will find some way to still other those who do not fit into the idea of what this new majority should be. It is like a never ending cycle. Tue, 30 Mar 2010 02:45:31 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/the-white-minorities__trashed/#IDComment64753264 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment64273132 here is the last part:Another thing that I think plays a large part in this is our own culture. Like the division between light skinned and dark skinned people. Every culture projects onto its children what is beautiful and right, but in the video, what is particularly disturbing is that those children had no problem choosing the white doll as beautiful. However when it was time for them to choose which one looked like them they realized that the “ugly” doll was like them. We must evaluate what we are projecting onto our children. Being conscious about these “things that just are” is the first step to changing this. Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:14:30 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment64273132 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment64273089 Here is the second part:They always put the black Barbie and Ken dolls (named Chrissie and Gregory?) in kente- cloth or things that were not flashy, or they never came with enough accessories. This has a large impact on children. I was talking to my friend and she said that she only had white dolls when she was growing up. For me I had more black dolls than white dolls. I had almost no Asian dolls and the only Native American doll I had was Pocahontas! Someone in class mentioned Disney. They just had a movie where they had their first black princess, but notice that her hair is not long and straight and she lives in New Orleans, has broad hips and big lips. Is that to make her more relatable to the black and brown children out there? I don’t know but I just find that interesting. But then again race does play a large part in Disney movies, even if subtly (anyone remember the Hyenas in Lion king? They had stereotypical Mexican accents.) Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:14:02 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment64273089 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment64273014 Here is the first part:This particular video really hit home with me because I was like that when I was a child too. I agree with Sam when he says that there is something inside all of us black and brown people that makes us choose those white dolls. I agree with it having to do with the media. When you type in beauty in Google, a bunch of long blonde haired blue eyes women is the first thing that pops up. You never see the dark skinned, curly haired girl in a box that has an html underneath it. I also remember being younger and going to toys-r-us and seeing Barbie in all her glory and then looking at the Chrissie doll and thinking, eww. It is not because she was ugly, she still had a neotonous (big eyes, big forehead, small chin) face and long hair, but there was something off about her. Her skin, though it was dark was too dark, there were small imperfections on her that were not there on Barbie, and of course the number one thing, Barbie had better clothes! Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:13:19 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment64273014 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/does-this-rudeness-thing-cut-both-ways__trashed/#IDComment62992565 I agree with what others have said about there needing to be equal reprimanding when it comes to comments, but I don’t think that what was said by colored people was equal to what was said by the white people. For example, the comment about the loud black girls was rude as someone else on here said, but when it came to the comment about white people looking like Ben Affleck, that was from the movie Role Models. Sam even said that the white people took the assignment more seriously than the colored people. Sam also said don’t let political correctness hold you back so the comment that was made about the spiky haired frat guys and the blonde, Ugg- wearing sorority girls was just someone’s opinion. I think it all comes down to what Sam was talking about in class today about political correctness. Also, when he showed the video today about the two little girls who participated in that playful game of dance around the swastika, it didn't surprise me when everyone was offended. People are more alike than they think. But going back to being politically correct, I think that to survive in our society today, people feel as if they should adhere to a certain level of political correctness. If not then they will risk being titles a racist, both if you are “colored” or white. I agree with what Sam said about things not being inherently offensive. It is the feelings or connotations that someone applies to that certain thing which makes it offensive. Also, did anyone notice that when there was something offensive said about white people, the white people laughed as well? Think about that. I am sure if there was an uproar about something that was said then it would have probably stopped. Also, why were the rude comments made by white people only directed toward black people? What about brown people? I have heard people often say that Asian students are loud in the computer labs, why not mention them? (Not that I agree with that statement). Like Sam said, there isn’t anything that you can really say that would offend a white person, besides calling them a racist, so of course there would be more of an “uproar” from black and brown students. We should remember that everyone stereotypes everyone. I am sure that Sam’s class is not really going to change anyone on a deeper level because many people only have to deal with race issues from 415 to 530 every Tuesday and Thursday. Hopefully though our thinking can be stimulated enough so that we are able to really check ourselves when we are out in the world around us. Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:37:26 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/does-this-rudeness-thing-cut-both-ways__trashed/#IDComment62992565 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/fired-for-a-scarf__trashed/#IDComment61744858 Here is the third part: It is true that we have come a long way in terms of civil rights and race relations in the post Obama era, but in my opinion, yes Obama accomplished a lot but he is only one man. He does not just speak for the black community but also for every person who never thought that they could make anything of themselves. We should question ourselves at the local level. Do we just follow blindly or do we do what is right. What if we went overseas and were treated differently because we were American. In some cases we are, but in many cases we as Americans are able to melt more easily into different cultures. You just want to fit in and pursue your livelihood just as anyone else does. Remember, she had on a hijab, nothing offensive. Bottom line, companies act in their own interests, but sometimes those interests are a bit misguided. Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:45:51 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/fired-for-a-scarf__trashed/#IDComment61744858 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/fired-for-a-scarf__trashed/#IDComment61744743 Here is the second part: There might be one person of color in there but they are light enough to not mess up the scene. This is the image of the store. This is what they represent. The employees also need to represent this image, therefore they are all almost always white. Of course there might be a few stores that have black workers and other minorities on the sale floor. I find it interesting though that when you look at the history of Abercrombie it was actually a store that sold outdoor equipment in the 30’s and 40’s and it now sells clothes. On the other side I do think it is a bit unfair that they fired this girl because her religious hijab did not comply with the dress code. This is supposed to be America, a place where there is freedom of religion. But the things that are acceptable can only be accepted if they do not go against what is considered normal. In this case it was what was considered American. Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:44:50 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/fired-for-a-scarf__trashed/#IDComment61744743 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/fired-for-a-scarf__trashed/#IDComment61744680 I have to post this in pieces so here is the first part: The fact that Abercrombie did something like this really doesn’t surprise me at all. As was stated in the video the company has done things like this before and every time it has been brought into the spotlight it slowly fades away until something of the sort happens again. I personally do not like the style of clothes at that Abercrombie sells but I can see this story from both sides. If you have ever walked into and Abercrombie store you will see the same thing whether you are in the flagship store on 5th avenue in new York city or in a mall in middle America. Tall thin boys and girls and men and women are clad in polo shirts of white or blue with washed out ripped denim bottoms and stylishly worn tennis shoes. The guys are super buff and the girls are super skinny and everyone looks tan and happy. Another thing that you will notice is that they are all white. Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:44:16 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/fired-for-a-scarf__trashed/#IDComment61744680 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/a-long-long-way-indeed__trashed/#IDComment59816538 I definitely agree. I think about this too. There is an episode of the Boondocks cartoon where Martin Luther King Jr. comes back to life and is appalled by the way the African American community has turned out. I think the slave owners would probably try and reinstate some type of Jim crow law or something like that. I also agree that race relations has come a long way but it definitely has a long way to go. It is strange to think that people were once slaves in this country adn even scarier to think that this still exists in the world today. Fri, 5 Mar 2010 01:06:22 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/a-long-long-way-indeed__trashed/#IDComment59816538 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/native-americans-question-four__trashed/#IDComment58602874 This question leads me into thinking about the question that Sam’s wife asked before about why the topic at the “race table” is always about the relations between black and white. I think the whole purpose of Sam trying to educate us about what happened to the Native Americans is so that we can be aware. He repeated that many times in class saying that it is not about guilt, it is about us being aware of what is going on and not trying to make up some grandiose myth of how this nation was created to make ourselves feel better. I myself was educated about a few things in class on Tuesday, especially when it came to the Native Americans. Most of what young men and women learn about Native Americans begins with the watered down version of how America was settled. The pilgrims came and encountered Native Americans, the Indians taught them how to hunt and fish and then they all shared a wonderful dinner together. Of course there are a few things missing from that story but that is for another time. I think no one talks about the plight of the Native Americans (both past and present) because it is not presented in our everyday life. What I mean by that is we see the relationship between African Americans and whites everyday because our culture is saturated with things that will point out our differences. Today people feel so far removed from Native American culture, except for what is seen in textbooks and maybe story books that it can be easily pushed from our mind. We should also remember that history is written by the powerful. Sam used the example of Ronald Reagan giving his 1980 inaugural speech about how America was a barren land until poor destitute peoples came here to form a country. Because the history that America has with Native Americans is so bloody and sad and horrific (Trail of tears anyone?) it is not a part of history that wants to be remembered. African American history in America is surely remembered because there are people who still want to fight for it to be remembered. Is there anyone for the Native Americans? Who will remember for them when their voices are silenced? I agree with Sam when I say that acknowledging is the first step to being able to fix the problem that Native Americans face today. He says it’s not about guilt, but there of course, in my opinion, is a certain sense that even though you were not there you have still taken something away. It also comes down to our country prioritizing. What is more important, how the rest of the world views America and international relations or fixing the problems with the country that just a need a little, or in this case, a lot, of attention. Thu, 25 Feb 2010 05:23:35 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/native-americans-question-four__trashed/#IDComment58602874 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/why-is-the-conversation-always-about-black-and-white-people__trashed/#IDComment57644374 I definitely understand what she is talking about in regards to race talks. The conversation can go on and on for hours and hours but in the end it always returns to Black vs. White. It is interesting to me because I have read about the history of many nations and many different cultures and in every single one, give or take a few, there has always been discrimination against those who were darker. In the Middle East and Central Asia, visitors to those lands would describe those who were “fair of skin” and those who were “dark of skin”. The dark ones would be portrayed in a negative light because of the differences in features and maybe in language. So a discrimination against darker (black and brown) people has been going on for thousands of years. We see it in works such as Shakespeare’s Othello (the full title being Othello: the Moor of Venice) and also in more recent film and television. In America, because of the history that White Americans have with African-Americans, from slavery to the civil rights movement and beyond, a race talk, I think, will always fall back to the differences and problems between blacks and whites. It is in the forefront of our culture yet no one speaks openly about it. If I am black and you are white we are going to talk about the problems that we face each day as individuals, regardless of whether or not there is a Chinese, Korean, Afghan, or Hawaiian person in the room. We don’t know about their struggles, we only know about eh history of the struggle between black and white and therefore that is all that will be talked about. If it comes down to talking about the problems and differences between us as Americans against another country, then that is maybe a time when we put on a united front. The same way that black and white is always on the race table here is America is much the same way that problems and differences between other races are on the race table in the rest of the world. Stereotypical Media portrayals have a lot to with things too. It was only after 9/11 that we saw an influx of Middle Eastern stereotypical portrayals in newspapers and magazines (and I could be wrong about that). If you look back in history, for black people there were portrayals of the inferior “jungle person” being carried on the backs of white “saviors” in Kipling’s White Man’s Burden. And the “shuckin’ and jivin’ big lipped black dancer” in the 20’s and 30’s and finally the hip hop thug stereotype of today. If those are things that you are faced with everyday, then if you get a chance to talk to a black person, or a white person, or nowadays a Middle Eastern/ Central Asian person then those are the only things that you want to talk about and confront and get answers to. We face these things everyday; therefore they are the only things we want to talk about. Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:42:01 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/why-is-the-conversation-always-about-black-and-white-people__trashed/#IDComment57644374 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/animals-vs-humans-vs-welfare-cheats__trashed/#IDComment56286641 This is what I don't understand about politicians who make statements like this. Everyone finds it a surprise that a senator would say something like this. I however do not. Have you noticed that when anyone, whether they be a public figure or not gets up on a platform that they are given they just say things that maybe don’t make any sense? I think it is the fact that they now have power that makes these people believe that they can say whatever they wish without really thinking it through. Welfare is something that may people in this country debate, right alongside abortion and healthcare. But I think Sam really hit the nail on the head when he gave examples of the two factors that contribute to why someone might be in the position where they need welfare. You cannot categorize something such as welfare and divide it into black or white, good or bad. Finding some middle ground is what will make you understand it better. You have to look at the soci0-economic reasons why some people are the way they are and why they live the way that they live. You also need to look at the choices that they make. Of course some people on welfare are probably cheating the system in some way or other, but doesn't everyone try and find a better way of doing things? What bothered me about the remarks from this man was that he just lumped everyone into the category of “animals”, talking about them like they were reproducing pests that you can’t get out of your house. He separated them from the rest of society, demeaning them by associating them with animals that have less worth than humans. He also remarks that by feeding them we are facilitating the problem. What? So what exactly would he have the state and federal government do? Are we just to forget about those who depend on welfare to help them survive everyday life? Do we just stop feeding them since doing that will supposedly solve whatever problem it is that we have? These empty comments are probably what he has been thinking all along, no matter what platform he stands for. Everyone has their biases including me and you. It is ironic to me that many politicians whether they be democrat of republican want to change some of the things going on in this country and have such strong thoughts about things regarding equality for all but in reality they mean equality for only a select few. I think maybe, like Sam said, he should take a walk in the shoes of that person on Welfare and see how he feels after an experience like that. Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:09:10 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/animals-vs-humans-vs-welfare-cheats__trashed/#IDComment56286641 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/avatar-and-the-white-mans-burden__trashed/#IDComment54972503 Like most people who have already blogged, I too had no desire to see the movie avatar when it first came out. However looks can be deceiving. I felt the same way about the Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring when it first came out in theaters. I saw Avatar the weekend before the second semester of school began and I have to say that it is a really great movie. It is visually stimulating, has music that moves you and has a storyline that holds your attention until the very end of the movie. Before going to see it I read up on what exactly James Cameron was trying to portray when undertaking a venture as large as this and read that he had thought of the movie when he had finished making Titanic, his other enormous blockbuster hit. The minute the movie ended it was all I could think about. The images still flashed in front of me when I closed my eyes. As far as I was concerned it was the best movie I had ever seen (in part because I had seen it in 3-D and IMAX). That was, until I began to read the reviews about it in newspapers and magazines. The comments I saw were very much like the ones stated by David Brooks in the Messiah Complex article. There were stories of people becoming depressed because they couldn't bear to face the real world after the beauty of Pandora and others who were sick because the movie was too much to handle (in 3-D). Backlash began and for me it just began to overshadow the fact that yes, the plot may be semi- empty and yes we may have seen stories like this before but AVATAR is still a cinematic success. It was something that James Cameron dreamed about for the entertainment of others. The plot may be based on a repetitive theme that many of us may have heard time and time again of the white man invading, then one of them defecting, then becoming the best native and then the leader and then saving the natives from his/her own people, however it allows us to get away from our problems and be engulfed in another world where things are possible. Isn’t that what movies are supposed to do? I enjoy movies that stimulate the mind with complicated psychological plots and a love story that involves heartache and suffering, yet being able to enjoy the switch from serious to just plain fun is also important. I understand where David Brooks is coming from but I also think that it is important to remember that for three hours and 42 minutes, AVATAR is taking us to a place where crappy plots are alright and the pressures and societal norms that plague us during daily life are non-existent (almost). Tue, 2 Feb 2010 04:42:20 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/avatar-and-the-white-mans-burden__trashed/#IDComment54972503