Now imagine republican momentum if, like all the Dems up for re-election in reddish states, all the "establishment" republicans came out and said, "We were wrong. The Tea Party was right. We didn't actually believe that big government was this inept. We talk a big game about small government but in our hearts we thought that Obama could pull this off. We were wrong."

What is the maximum number of Pinocchios available? Because that line needs to peg the scale.

There is more being fought over than is claimed in this rather self-serving post.

Can we have some honesty about who picked this fight? It is astounding after umpteen articles calling Cruz every name in the book for Tobin to write as if his side is being attacked out of the blue for a polite disagreement over tactics.

More importantly, can we have some analysis. Tobin believes that there was no good from the shutdown? All gains from the obamacare flop would be gained? Dems now asking for the same delay having the same political outcomes? Is this fight really only about tactics? Kind of unlikely don't you think? This post promotes a really incorrect view of what this fight is over. In some ways this post is emblematic of why the base is angry at the establishment.

Catholic social conservative populists will of course be fine with large parts of progressive big government. They are apt to want government to not just interfere in culture war issues but are happy to use government to pursue their vision of social engineering.

The big divide is whether you want actual limited government even if it sometimes mean your own ox is sometimes gored - or is that just a rhetorical flourish and useful club to hit the other guy with. Santorum doesn't have any libertarian instincts in him. I'd bet his preferred supreme court justice would be an Alito rather than a Thomas.

One wonders if Wehner's crusade against Cruz is as self-destructive as he claims Cruz's fight against Obamacare. Stakes are much smaller but I have to say that Whener is making much less progress at much greater cost to the republicans. Wehner also has a lot more high profile help in reaching his goal of destroying Cruz than Cruz got in his goal of destroying Obamacare.

Please look up the word monopsony.

Nothing in the bill was put in or taken out by conservatives. It passed without any republican votes. Not one. This was all democrat. The idea that a heritage position paper from the early 90s that the republicans never took up as their preferred reform somehow makes this plan anyone other than Obama's is a retarded piece of spin

I don't know how foolish Cruz was as things are playing out. Cruz was willing to go for delay of Obamacare. Now the administration is unable to take that option. The administration is in fact spending time threatening any Dems who suggest a delay. Because if they ask for a delay then that vindicates Cruz. the media is willfully amnesiac to help Dems but even the pathetic republican messaging machine should be able to cram the idea that Obama refused Cruz in the harshest terms over the CR - and now is admitting that the program is failing as Cruz predicted.

The GOA was saying that the roll out was going to be a disaster for the last six months. Cruz is the person who 1) fired up the base and 2) insured that these problems are laid at the feet of Obama and 3) forced Obama either to march straight into the disaster of Obamacare or will be forced to concede that Cruz was right.

I think it is turning out to have been absolutely necessary to go as far as shutting down the government to show that the republicans in no way shape or form supported Obamacare. I am seeing a lot of messaging that Obamacare was really a republican plan in using private insurance and so therefore these problems are because Obama was too bi-partisan and that the problems are republican's fault. this is deranged but will be pushed harder and harder.

Wehner's preferred tactic would have helped this meme grab hold. It seems Orwellian to think that this idea that Obamacare can be blamed on republicans but the Wehner's of the party ran Romney. I think Romney was a good man - but how often did we hear that O-care was just Romneycare for everyone?

If I, a pretty informed conservative/libertarian, am convinced that the Wehner wing ofthe party is not serious and substantive as opposed to opportunistic in their dislike of Obamacare how much easier would it be to convince the mushy ignorant middle?

Commentary specializes in ceding all first-principle philosophical ground to progressives.

The shutdown was a game of poker where each side tries to position itself with strength to get as much from the other side. The Senate republicans and people like Tobin are like people yelling, "Fold - we have nothing!" as the game is played. To then blame Cruz or the Tea Party is deranged. What a b.s. red herring it is to complain that Cruz was never going to get Obamacare defunded. So what? No one thought that would happen. But you fight and use your leverage and take what concessions you can. Republicans could have gotten any number of policy concessions - and the Tea Party would have been pleased. To attack Cruz because his opening demands were unrealistic is traitorous to conservatism and the best interest of the republican party. It was the opening bid in what should have been a negotiation but the establishment couldn't have Cruz win any concessions because his success would hurt them - even though it would have been good for the country. McCain, Tobin the Bushes did everything they could to make sure that Obama and the Dems never felt the need to come to the table. Shame on them.

It is no wonder the base has no respect or trust in the establishment. They really really want the tea party to die and Cruz to go away and will sabotage things to make that happen.