en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/738694 Comments by ThomasWMutherJr http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment64131799 Odd. Did I say you HAD said anything about Kucinich or Obama? Are my replies be strictly limited by the specific comments of those who disagree with me? I suppose that would include limitations on vocabulary and phrasing as well? I mean, I didn't say anything about deflection, why are you talking about deflection? There was a reason I "parroted" the "usual talking points" about W. This virulent anti-Obama rhetoric comes from those who have never reconciled the obvious anti-democratic traits of the previous administration with their wishful thinking about it. Now, much of the right is acting as if the present administration is the greatest threat to humanity the world has ever faced. I'm no fan of Obama, but this debate needs some perspective. Bush unleashed more horror upon the world than the combined machinations of every terrorist who ever lived. Given that, NOW lets discuss--rationally--the shortcomings of Obama and what we can do to make this a better country. That leaves a great deal to discuss. Fri, 26 Mar 2010 02:22:38 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment64131799 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63904572 If you were familiar with the entire breadth of my comments, you would know that "parroting" is not my style. It's true I voted for both Obama and Kerry, but that doesn't mean I was happy with either choice. Heck, I haven't been happy with my choices in a long, long while. I've attacked many of Obama's stances, though some of those probably wouldn't make you happy (but then, making any individual happy isn't why I speak out), as much of my objection, though not all, has revolved around his decision to continue--or even worsen--some of the biggest abuses of power exhibited by the former administration, for one example, his decision, since reversed, to make holding suspects forever without charges or trial into something quasi-legal. There are some things about Obama I like, but the fact that he is not really principle driven (like his predecessor) is not one of them. Parrot? Never. Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:59:59 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63904572 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63903129 Perhaps you're not fully familiar with the term "projection," that is, as a defense mechanism (I assume you weren't suggesting I was showing a film). Projection amounts to the taking the things within ourselves that we hate, and seeing them in others, then striking out at those external manifestations. The original poster attacked a wide swath of Americana, saying that if a person really wanted the best for this country, they couldn't possibly be liberals--i.e., the only way you can be a true American is to be conservative. I pointed out how narrow the thinking is that led to such a remark. You suggest I'm projecting. Did I say there was anything wrong with being conservative? No. Or being a member of any particular group? No. My only objection was to the "holier than thou" attitude--an attitude that I did not exhibit myself. I have no problems with conservatives, only its virulent, anti-everything else form. We can disagree--that's fine--but let's not bash everything else. Wed, 24 Mar 2010 20:48:05 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63903129 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63811966 I serve no ideology but rationality. I parrot nothing. You don't see me repeating the latest sayings of Obama, or Kucinich. And certainly not those of Hannity or Rush. My eyes are wide open and looking dispassionately at both the left and right. Neither side coopts me. Wed, 24 Mar 2010 07:10:14 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63811966 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63811172 Sadly, this trait you speak of seems to know no ideological boundaries. The right was, in the main, only too happy to see Bush and Cheney fenestrate the Constitution in the pursuit of power. "Yeah! More power to the right!" It was perfectly okay--more, it was a righteous undertaking. Now, Obama shreds the same document (though so far, not quite so completely--but give him time) and the left shouts "yeah!" or turns the other way (though to be fair, various prominent progressive have been blogging about Obama's abuses of power since even before he came into office, e.g., with his turnaround on telecommunication immunity, and have stayed on him since--such as Glen Greenwald). And so it goes. Abuse is perfectly okay--as long as it's your team that's doing the abusing. I say "phooey!" Wed, 24 Mar 2010 07:01:55 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63811172 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63809552 Sadly, there is much truth in what you've written. While there are many principled progressives who have howled mightily against Obama's refusal to put down the Cheney playbook, too many have turned a blind eye, or have actually embraced this turnabout, or tried to morph it inot some really deep, complicated manuever where the true values of Obama will come out on top at the end. Bologna. It's a repition of the Bush years where time after time Bush betrayed conservative and American principle in the pursuit of power, and too many conservatives went along. Some say America is a principled country--but from where I sit, it appears--with prominent exceptions--anything but. If what you say is true, then you are definitely closer to my kind of person than 90% of the liberals I've met. Cheers! Wed, 24 Mar 2010 06:44:22 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63809552 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63808286 There is nothing 'wounded" about me. It's the far right conservatives who are acting as if the sky has just fallen and they're all victims to this horrible catastrophe. It's REASON who is the truly aggreived party here. Not me. I'm just fine, thank you ;-) Wed, 24 Mar 2010 06:32:08 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63808286 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63807636 So, it's okay to TEMPORARILY commit war crimes? That makes no sense, IMHO. When you've committed a war crime, you've forever committed such a crime. And all the imperialist presidency's horses, and all the president's men, can't unbuild these crimes again. In any case, it was clear that Bush/Cheney had no desire for the "war on terror" to ever end, lest they have to give up those "temporary" powers--some of which were never granted by acts of Congress. Some were simply grasped in defiance of statute, treaty, Constitution, and long-standing American principle. Like the signing statements. Like the torture. When were these extraordinary accretions of power supposed to end? Obama has abused his power as well, but he'll have to travel a good ways to before overtaking W in claiming an equal share of imperialist chutzpah. I wouldn't put it past him, but he's got a long way to go. Wed, 24 Mar 2010 06:25:09 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63807636 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/scrowder/2010/03/23/lonewolf-diaries-conservatives-who-arent-conservative-and-sean-hannity/#IDComment63804467 I'm confused. Is English your third language? My comments seem quite clear. And "Troll"????? I know it may seem wacky for someone to stand up amidst a gaggle of conservatives and speak their mind even though it isn't entirely in-line with the far-right mantra, but "troll"?? I'm not running for cover like most of the troglodytes do. Nor am I writing with the prime motivation to provoke. I'm speaking my mind. And what could you possibly be referring to with: "What about your silence NOW??" And what silence would that be? You sound confused. if you would like me to guide you through my comments, phrase by phrase, and explain them--either using other simpler English phrases or translating them into another language for you, please let me know, as I would be happy to do that. Cheerio! Wed, 24 Mar 2010 05:51:06 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/scrowder/2010/03/23/lonewolf-diaries-conservatives-who-arent-conservative-and-sean-hannity/#IDComment63804467 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63757620 (Continued) I expect you'll find that position quite a lonely one, but you've a right to it . . . more--it's your duty as a principled conservative to voice that view. Good luck with that. Incidentally, I see myself as neither Democrat nor Republican, neither liberal nor conservative, but as a rationalist, willing to take look-see from all perspectives, choosing the view that makes the most sense. It's why I have spoken out against the problematic machinations of Obama and Clinton almost as fervently as I have the catastrophic errors of Bush/Cheney. But as regards health care, I'm willing to give this mixed bag of blessings and curses in the just passed bill some time to see if it results in a net positive or negative. Only the perspective of time will give us a clear answer. Cheers! And thank you for your response! Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:37:53 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63757620 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63757268 (Continued) Things like persons no longer being denied health insurance due to preexisting conditions--ensuring access to health insurance for all Americans regardless of their income--being able to switch from one job to another without  fearing that ones insurance will go be the wayside.  And not incidentally, who says that "asking you to pay for my health care" is "an immoral concept?"  I'm not suggesting you don't have a right to your opinion, but we already pay for the health care of others--through Medicare, through Medicaid, through higher health costs which bankroll those unable to pay. I would aver that government is a collective, bound together for the benefit of all its citizens. You and I can disagree about the extent to which this umbrella of protection should be extended, but if you really feel this idea is "immoral" then you should be out there lobbying for the repeal of Medicare, Medicaid, and insisting that people should only be treated to the extent that they can pay for their own way.  ["Sorry.  You're having a heart attack, but since you can't afford my services . . . ."]  (Continued) Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:35:35 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63757268 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63757142 (Continued) And though many of the regulations forced on hospitals are onerous--sometimes extremely so--would I want hospitals to practice without "big brother" watching over their shoulders?  Definitely not.  And consider that the best health care in the world is not here in these United States, but in countries that practice "socialized medicine." This all points to a rationally undeniable fact:  government "interference" in health care does not necessarily equate to unmitigated disaster. [Which is not to say that the "entrenched government presence" hasn't been part of the problem as it certainly has been--but most of the problem is actually a human problem, a problem with fallibility, of greed, of stupidity.]  Now, this bill coming out of Congress IS a bit of a calamity, as it's a cobbling together of too many ideas from a too fractious House.  It's an incoherent mess.  But there are many good things in it, things that can't be argued away by calling it "socialism" while holding up a crucifix.(Continued) Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:34:42 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63757142 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63757016 (Continued) The Civil Rights Act of 1964--a net positive.  Police departments--an overall positive, wouldn't you say?  Laws that prohibit things as diverse as child trafficking to armed robbery--definitely a good thing. Regulations that help to insure the safety of our food and medications?  How many people would consider that problematic? If we can agree that, on the whole, these things are, in toto, good (while acknowledging there are flaws and problems with all of them), why is it that the idea of governmental "presence" in health care is deemed a horror to end all horrors?  Their influence is already much felt--both to the good and to the bad. I'm a RN and have been in the field of health care for 34 years and know only too well the negatives of government's presence (and, believe it or not, have actually tried to do a little thinking about the issues over these 3+ decades).  Yet, would I want anyone to be able to just up and declare themselves a doctor? or am I thankful that governmental regulation ensures (for the most part) that only licensed, qualified individuals can practice medicine? (Continued) Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:33:38 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63757016 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63756901 It's funny.  Most of the ills in our society, or so it seems listening to conservatives, seem to arise from governmental intervention/meddling--substantially if not entirely.  Exaggerating only a pinch, one would have to conclude that government has never produced anything worthwhile, save for its military interventions.  Even when that particular job is botched as horribly as the Iraq war was, both in terms of its rationale and execution, such interventions are sacrosanct and held up as patriotism in excelsis exemplar--while every other governmental function is demeaned (with this criticism being the second greatest example of patriotism).  Now, I have nothing against criticizing government--quite the contrary as I've spent a few days in jail as a result of civil disobedience (though I would insist that patriotic criticism can be directed at our military interventions as well).  But I am also willing to adjure that governmental action has resulted in many net pluses for society.  Take social security--a net plus I would hazard.  Medicare--a net plus.  Medicaid--a net positive.  (continued below) Wed, 24 Mar 2010 01:32:49 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63756901 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/scrowder/2010/03/23/lonewolf-diaries-conservatives-who-arent-conservative-and-sean-hannity/#IDComment63730030 I would say that ANY time an individual's actions and words make it clear that "political affiliation [has taken] a back seat to moral credibility and core principals" then that person, and more especially his ideas, should be called out.* And publicly. On center-ice. If the absurd is allowed to stand and promulgate simply in the interest of maintaining a united front, that front is going to lose credibility, damaging its legitimate concerns. The cries of "death panels" and "Obama=Hitler"--along with the silence of too many who knew better--may have done as much to push through the health care bill as did Nancy Pelosi. *I suspect America would be in a better place today if principled conservatives had stood up to GWB's betrayal of American and Conservative ideals. Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:21:21 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/scrowder/2010/03/23/lonewolf-diaries-conservatives-who-arent-conservative-and-sean-hannity/#IDComment63730030 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmnolte/2010/03/12/review-matt-damon-paul-greengrass-get-their-hateamerica-on-in-green-zone/#IDComment63727180 (Continued) There was also a well-connected Iraqi ambassador who supplied us with corroborating evidence of the lack of WMDs--which was also ignored. Most of that information was withheld from our allies. Indeed, the former head of Mi6 in Britain has said that if they had known of the information supplied by the ambassador, Britain would have almost certainly not have entered the war, even though Blair would have undoubtedly still wanted to pursue it. So much for Nolte's avowal that our allies had the same intelligence we had (yeah--they got the bad, but the more accurate info was withheld). I know that many will make me out as anti-American because I dare to criticize. So be it, even though in reality I am pro-America--just anti-warmongering, anti-arrogance, anti-stupidity. Tue, 23 Mar 2010 21:59:15 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmnolte/2010/03/12/review-matt-damon-paul-greengrass-get-their-hateamerica-on-in-green-zone/#IDComment63727180 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmnolte/2010/03/12/review-matt-damon-paul-greengrass-get-their-hateamerica-on-in-green-zone/#IDComment63727117 Hmm. Once again we see a filmmaker slammed as being something close to a traitor because he offers a critical view of American policy. Recall Jefferson's comment that "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism?" Alas, too many people on both sides of the partisan fence believe this only when that dissent echoes their own belief. It's true that this film offers an explanation for the Iraqi carnage that is decidedly fictional--but it's not THAT far from removed from reality. In reality, it wasn't a high ranking general that met with us in Jordan to tell us that Iraq had no WMD, it was the head of Iraqi's intelligence community (who actually gave us a lot of potentially useful information--all of which was ignored due to the administration's barrel-visioned interest only in info substantiating WMD). And we didn't kill him to keep him quiet, we set him up in a modest mansion in Jordan instead. [Not incidentally, we also forged his signature on the infamous manufactured "letter" that "proved" Iraq had WMD.] (Continued) Tue, 23 Mar 2010 21:58:43 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmnolte/2010/03/12/review-matt-damon-paul-greengrass-get-their-hateamerica-on-in-green-zone/#IDComment63727117 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmnolte/2010/03/12/review-matt-damon-paul-greengrass-get-their-hateamerica-on-in-green-zone/#IDComment63724957 I guess you haven't seen the film. It does NOT present the American military in a bad light. It presents their civilian leaders in a bad light--and rightfully so. It presents the military (one commando unit under the direct control of one of these leaders to the contrary) as competent, well-trained individuals, doing their best in a bad situation. Tue, 23 Mar 2010 21:43:01 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmnolte/2010/03/12/review-matt-damon-paul-greengrass-get-their-hateamerica-on-in-green-zone/#IDComment63724957 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63718309 Oops! Sorry! I forgot about the imprimatur from Rush. Yes, of course--that does indeed make it "all okay." Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:50:42 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63718309 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63717685 (Continued) I'm not saying we should be satisfied with this truth. We should always seek to improve things but realizing that perfection will always elude us. This bill IS, imho, an improvement over the status quo--as well as a detriment. For all of its many flaws, however, it provides little reason to run amok insisting the end is near (not that you have done such). Maybe, just maybe, if those who oppose some of the specifics of the bill can maintain a foothold in reality, some of those detriments can eventually be rectified. Shouts of "Hitler!" and "Grab your guns!" will never get it done, however. Great chatting with you! Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:46:00 +0000 http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggraham/2010/03/22/obamacare-a-good-night-for-tyranny/#IDComment63717685