en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/4502188 Comments by TheDocLOP https://lordsofpain.net/the-eternal-optimist-presents-okada-and-omega-are-john-cena-knockoffs-plus-three-other-all-in-happenings-that-highlight-the-hypocrisy-of-the-diehard-wrestling-fan/#IDComment1065114164 Bingo! Though I think there are occasions for the epic, finisher kick out fests, I largely agree with this post. Tue, 4 Sep 2018 22:49:24 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/the-eternal-optimist-presents-okada-and-omega-are-john-cena-knockoffs-plus-three-other-all-in-happenings-that-highlight-the-hypocrisy-of-the-diehard-wrestling-fan/#IDComment1065114164 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065083729 It is not, actually. I thought it was good for its time, but that it doesn't stand the test of time in the face of stiff competition. However, you've convinced me to go back and give it one final look Mon, 3 Sep 2018 15:41:36 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065083729 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065083711 That's a good point. I suppose it was an old thought that made it onto the page. That's what I'd said for years...that it was the best women's match since Trish vs. Mickie. However, I don't necessarily think it held up as well; maybe some of that is because of the Trish vs. Lita legacy, whereas AJ and Kaitlyn obviously aren't on that pedestal. Mon, 3 Sep 2018 15:40:13 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065083711 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065083683 Fair enough. Should've led with that, brother! Would've saved you the time and energy of responding to people who didn't care for the dismissive tone set by your original post ! :) Mon, 3 Sep 2018 15:38:25 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065083683 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065083661 That's awesome that you were there. As I will discuss at length in the coming weeks, I just don't think those matches hold up very well against the modern work we've seen in NXT and WWE since 2014, but it's definitely got the same emotional punch it had all those years ago. I'll be curious to know how people feel about this issue as the series advances - does the work from Trish and Lita hold up ? Mon, 3 Sep 2018 15:37:01 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065083661 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065059764 Serious question for you - nothing has changed about your perception of women's wrestling these past few years? Not Bayley-Banks? Not Charlotte-Sasha? Not Asuka-Charlotte? None of that has changed your tune? Sasha is a fantastic, believable heel. I'd be curious to know your fan background. Old school NWA guy? Earlier? You're right...nothing today is believable like the old days were, but it's strengths have shifted to other parts of the game, and those strengths are strengths that the women's wrestlers have been able to tap into Sun, 2 Sep 2018 15:55:56 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065059764 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065059659 That triple threat still tops your list after these past five years? Sun, 2 Sep 2018 15:51:01 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065059659 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065059650 This would be the reason why I don't buy the "Charlotte and everyone" sort of argument. Alexa has massively benefited from the perception of women's wrestling having shifted thanks to other women. She has been one of the foremost stars in a wrestling world in which women might soon main-event WrestleMania and in which classic matches that contend with the men's matches for best of the night, month, and year are at times expected. Charlotte, due to her pedigree, would've probably been another Trish - a shining star in a universe that didn't have many - but the Revolution gave her a platform to be greater; no doubting that. With Alexa, though, we're going to be talking about her as one of the top females of the ground-breaking women's era, and there's absolutely no way she would've been able to achieve that in a different era. Sun, 2 Sep 2018 15:50:31 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065059650 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065059555 Hard to argue? I don't know that I'd go that far. I think Charlotte's case is probably easiest, given that her benefit may be the other half of the first pair of females to main-event a WrestleMania. There are other cases to be made for different reasons, but she's at the top of the discussion order Sun, 2 Sep 2018 15:46:15 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065059555 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065059521 I'm surprised that this mindset still exists. You can get to fifty 3-star level matches just counting everything that has happened since Paige and Emma tore it up on the first live Network special 4.5 years ago. Sun, 2 Sep 2018 15:44:32 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065059521 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065059506 Hmm...I don't know that you and I are that far apart on evaluating Nikki's skills. I think she's better than you think, though; her run as Divas Champion in 2015 was actually pretty good; it certainly didn't break any new ground by any means, but she was a strong presence as the dominant female and she had average matches. Because of her athleticism, she can do a few cool things, but she just doesn't seem to get it from the standpoint of how to put it all together. Sun, 2 Sep 2018 15:43:34 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065059506 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065059457 Perception shifting will play a big part in explaining the two favorites of yesteryear being in the Top 50 instead of the Top 25 or higher. I'll check out that match. Not much from that era figures to make this list, frankly, so I'm always up for perception-altering exercises Sun, 2 Sep 2018 15:40:58 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065059457 https://lordsofpain.net/the-eternal-optimist-presents-an-instant-review-of-all-in/#IDComment1065058738 But that's what it is... Sun, 2 Sep 2018 14:57:20 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/the-eternal-optimist-presents-an-instant-review-of-all-in/#IDComment1065058738 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065038303 You still stuck in that mindset? Sat, 1 Sep 2018 16:51:42 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/doctors-orders-the-top-50-womens-matches-of-the-wrestlemania-era/#IDComment1065038303 https://lordsofpain.net/sir-sams-court-faces-heels-are-dead-long-live-characters/#IDComment1065034863 I like the way that you look at the product, Sam; I really do. I've gone back and forth with how I feel about this over the years, at times embracing the idea and at others longing for the days of old when things were a little simpler. I don't think that there's any choice anymore. We have to embrace the blurred lines as a fanbase and WWE needs to be more consistent about their presentation of this philosophy. The part about Strowman that gets me is this: why raise hands with the clear cut baddies? This can be explained on Monday and it better be explained on Monday; otherwise, he's a heel. It's all about the presentation in the follow-up. Merely "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" would suffice for me to stay consistent with Braun's most recent presentation, but if he's out there dissing the fans and raising hands with the heels again, then it's harder to embrace what you're saying (and what I'm hoping for). I want Braun to be Braun and Roman to be Roman, and that to made clearer. Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:10:11 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/sir-sams-court-faces-heels-are-dead-long-live-characters/#IDComment1065034863 https://lordsofpain.net/99-problems-but-a-lynch-aint-one-charlotte-however-is/#IDComment1065034760 The only issue I take with the Charlotte part of this is that she's just basically a toned down version of the heel that was so good in 2016/17. The Roman 2.0 dynamic might naturally come, but it won't be because Charlotte is inconsistent as a character or because of a perception of her unworthiness; she's also not being pushed as the face of the company and being pigeonholed into feuds with the industry's past stars; she's owning who she is, cocky to a degree organically, but not so overtly as was the case when she was the lead antagonist. I think, if we're going to go with the idea that Becky's character is not a problem because she's owning something real, then let's allow Charlotte the same courtesy of going with the flow that her persona has established. Everyone will pick sides and it'll be awesome. Sat, 1 Sep 2018 13:03:10 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/99-problems-but-a-lynch-aint-one-charlotte-however-is/#IDComment1065034760 https://lordsofpain.net/plan-the-doc-present-the-wwf-new-generations-top-50-matches-part-4/#IDComment1065013735 Made him look like a total idiot Fri, 31 Aug 2018 15:20:11 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/plan-the-doc-present-the-wwf-new-generations-top-50-matches-part-4/#IDComment1065013735 https://lordsofpain.net/plan-the-doc-present-the-wwf-new-generations-top-50-matches-part-4/#IDComment1064993532 Awesome! Thu, 30 Aug 2018 21:43:40 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/plan-the-doc-present-the-wwf-new-generations-top-50-matches-part-4/#IDComment1064993532 https://lordsofpain.net/plan-the-doc-present-the-wwf-new-generations-top-50-matches-part-4/#IDComment1064993529 And for that it's great, but as a match I'm meh on it Thu, 30 Aug 2018 21:43:26 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/plan-the-doc-present-the-wwf-new-generations-top-50-matches-part-4/#IDComment1064993529 https://lordsofpain.net/the-doc-says-becky-lynch-turning-is-good-evolutions-importance-sd-til-mania-feat-the-eternal-optimist/#IDComment1064987595 Her character shifted... Thu, 30 Aug 2018 16:17:52 +0000 https://lordsofpain.net/the-doc-says-becky-lynch-turning-is-good-evolutions-importance-sd-til-mania-feat-the-eternal-optimist/#IDComment1064987595