IntenseDebate - TheBigJ

9 years ago @ Jewish Daily Forward - Cheating Hasids Out of... · 0 replies · -2 points

The Haredi or the Hasidim. Because in my experience, most non-Hasidic Haredi schools (e.g. Lithuanian, Yekke, and Sephardi---and even the Adas Yereim schools) at least in the USA, are perfectly fine with regard to math, reading, etc.

There are some exceptions but that's generally the case. Though in Israel it's certainly NOT the case.

9 years ago @ Jewish Daily Forward - Cheating Hasids Out of... · 1 reply · -2 points

Epikoros, I didn't think of it that way, but yes, you are 100% correct. We need to get rid of the present welfare system altogether (It should only be available for those who are physically or mentally incapable of supporting themselves). That would indeed force Blacks, Hispanics, poor Whites, and Hasidim to support themselves.

I think, epikoros, you and I would also agree, though this is slightly off topic, that not only should welfare for the poor be eliminated but also welfare for the rich (e.g. corporate subsidies), regional welfare (e.g. pork barrel), and welfare for other nations (e.g. foreign aid).

9 years ago @ Jewish Daily Forward - Cheating Hasids Out of... · 0 replies · -3 points

An excellent point, Tomaven, and this is one of the things I constantly bring up vis-a-vis the Haredi welfare system in Israel. if indeed Talmudic kollel scholars are true scholars, and yes, they are...then why not allow them to get professional pay for what they do? I mean, they're keeping Torah scholarship going and teaching the people---that's a profession...so let them earn professional rates.

But they'll never be able to get professional rates if the numbers are so large and the resources are so thinly spread.

9 years ago @ Jewish Daily Forward - Cheating Hasids Out of... · 3 replies · +3 points

All of this is true IF they choose to go on and pursue careers. I have a brother who did just that---he was in kollel for 10 years and then went to a prestigious law school and graduated top of his class. However, and this is especially true in Israel, many don't take that route, and so all the mental development that does indeed come from Talmud study, gets unused. Moreover, in Hasidic communities the level of basic education is of a lousy type, and even the Talmudic education is less qualitative than what you'd get at most Litvishe schools. So the basic maths, sciences, and English, which you're NOT going to get from the Talmud, is just not there.

9 years ago @ Jewish Daily Forward - Cheating Hasids Out of... · 0 replies · -2 points

Now you make some sense here, azkenamer. Let them learn the skills they need to get a trade--math, science, English, certain social sciences, even a foreign language if they desire, like Spanish or French.
And you are right about college. Unless you intend to go to medical school or something along those lines, the universities today are useless for getting skills. They are run by a parasitic class of leftist professors, administrators, and 'career counsellors'.

9 years ago @ Jewish Daily Forward - Cheating Hasids Out of... · 0 replies · -2 points

I'm sorry, azkenamer, but I can't accept this line of reasoning, if you can call it reasoning. If we didn't like the Hasidic people, why would we be so concerned as to help their children gain the skills they need in society? If we didn't like them, then we'd let them languish.

And don't tell me that we want to educate them because we want to destroy their Hasidic lifestyle. That's nonsense. You can be fully Hasidic and properly educated. it wasn't unusual in Eastern Europe for Hasidic and Haredi parents who had some money to send their kids to the local gymnasium for a decent education and then onto university if they could get past the antisemitic quotas. The Lubavitcher Rebbe is a prime example of one who was fully educated in this manner, and he was by no means the only one.

9 years ago @ Jewish Daily Forward - Cheating Hasids Out of... · 0 replies · -5 points

YahwehVoice, you are correct but these same tiny cadre of rabbis are the ones who deliver the votes to the Democratic and Republican politicians, and these politicians, given the fact that a mass of ignorant people, is good for their careers, are complicit in the impoverishment of Hasidic children. The same is true for black and Hispanic children--the worse their education is, the more likely they are to unquestioningly support Democratic politicians (and some Republicans enable it.).

9 years ago @ Jewish Daily Forward - Cheating Hasids Out of... · 0 replies · +1 points

A bit of an over-generalization, but accurate regarding some of them. Though you could say the same about politicians.

9 years ago @ Jewish Daily Forward - Cheating Hasids Out of... · 0 replies · +2 points

Azkenamer, the Lubavitchers have already done this, and so have some branches of Breslov. They don't 'force' people, but they do speak up for the secular in the best way they know how.

Here's the thing, azkenamer---those parents don't really have a choice. Because Hasidic sects (and some Litvishe sects as well) are governed in such a manner that a tiny elite is making all the decisions, the actual freedom of choice has been taken away from the parents. The only choice you have is to obey the elite or risk gaining lower class citizenship in the community with the accompanying symptoms regarding shidduch and the like, or even being cut off from the community entirely and the only support structure you've ever known, and possibly incurring divine punishment because the elite are imbued with divine authority. That's not really a choice.

And even if it were a choice---does a parent have a choice to deprive his child of the necessary skills he needs to support himself and his family? Because if the parent has that choice, you end up with more and more welfare dependents, and that affects everyone.

9 years ago @ Jewish Daily Forward - Cheating Hasids Out of... · 0 replies · +2 points

Henry, Alevin is not incorrect. There is a growing number of Hasidic and Haredi people who are making an effort to get skills, and more and more of them are coming to terms with modernity. The problem is that since their population is constantly increasing in an exponential manner, the numbers of kids who aren't getting those skills and the numbers of Haredim that can't support themselves, also continues to increase.

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