en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/540928 Comments by RichardWitty http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/tema-okun.html#IDComment27857172 I've never been to a settlement, but I have been to the West Bank (and not on a tour). Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:34:13 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/tema-okun.html#IDComment27857172 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/emily-hauser-writes-a-moving-piece-about-why-shes-throwing-herself-back-into-palestineisrael-issues-heres-part-of-her-menta.html#IDComment27607747 The kidnappings are responses to responses to responses to responses. No real starting point. The Lebanon kidnappings were an independant starting point. The kidnapping of Shalit was accompanied by multiple kidnapping attempts in the West Bank, with the Hezbollah kidnappings experienced by Israel as a "last straw:. The presence of big weapons in the hands of Hezbollah allowed them to undertake "little kidnapping operations". As, the presence of nuclear weapons in the hands of Iran will allow them to escalate their "resistance solidarity" in the form of increasing harrassment of Israeli civilians. None of the actions by either Hezbollah, Hamas, Israel, are justified or justifiable. The dysfunctional complex is the problem, and that is solved by urging of mutual acceptance of the other, and NOT by solidarity with escalating angers picking either self-defined victim/hero side. Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:24:26 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/emily-hauser-writes-a-moving-piece-about-why-shes-throwing-herself-back-into-palestineisrael-issues-heres-part-of-her-menta.html#IDComment27607747 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/emily-hauser-writes-a-moving-piece-about-why-shes-throwing-herself-back-into-palestineisrael-issues-heres-part-of-her-menta.html#IDComment27607441 Courage. Dropping the two-state solution as a goal, is giving up. If you need to reassess where your energy is best directed, do so. Its not a failing to choose to bring up a family safely in all meanings of the term. The Israeli response was an example of extreme frustration on the part of the not quite up-to-the-task Israeli government. The conflict is between civility and fanaticism, between liberalism based on respecting the other, and solidarity based on picking a side (or a fantasy, in the case of the single-state proposal). As peace is an exercise in consent, it takes movements for civility IN Israel, movements for civility IN Palestine, movements for civility in the US, movements for civility in the Arab world. Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:18:09 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/emily-hauser-writes-a-moving-piece-about-why-shes-throwing-herself-back-into-palestineisrael-issues-heres-part-of-her-menta.html#IDComment27607441 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/my-list-of-american-journalists-with-family-connections-in-israel.html#IDComment27607046 "If Americans knew" A truly reliable source of information? Ethan Bronner has written some very informative pieces, that have actually scooped Phil's theses. For example, in February he posted a series of articles from Gaza describing the Gazan society as surprisingly cosmopolitan in orientation, and suprisingly absent of radical propaganda (at least relative to his expectations). I found that informative and MORE reliable in confirmation, than what I read here. Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:10:53 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/my-list-of-american-journalists-with-family-connections-in-israel.html#IDComment27607046 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/huwaida-arraf-on-nonviolence-and-finkelstein-too.html#IDComment27606845 But true. Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:07:19 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/huwaida-arraf-on-nonviolence-and-finkelstein-too.html#IDComment27606845 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/roadmaps-offspring-iraq-war-and-settlement-freezes.html#IDComment27606770 Supply, training, encouragement, funding for Hamas aggressions, and Hezbollah's violation of UN resolutions. Iran is within their rights to enrich uranium as a complying (sometimes) member of the nuclear non-proliferation protocols. And, Israel would be violating international law to attack a sovereign state that is in legal compliance with international nuclear protocols, even if that state is in violation of international law in funding, supplying, training terror activities on another sovereign state. The issue of the settlements in Israel/Palestine indicate Israel's apparent intent, either to stop settlement construction and be satisfied with enough or to expand. Similarly, Iran's military support of Hamas and Hezbollah and other factions, is a tipping issue, indicating to the world whether Iran seeks to be a peaceful and prominent member of the international community, or an aggressive interloper in others' negotiations. Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:06:08 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/roadmaps-offspring-iraq-war-and-settlement-freezes.html#IDComment27606770 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/roadmaps-offspring-iraq-war-and-settlement-freezes.html#IDComment27606450 Agreed. Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:00:06 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/roadmaps-offspring-iraq-war-and-settlement-freezes.html#IDComment27606450 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/my-list-of-american-journalists-with-family-connections-in-israel.html#IDComment27601634 Your set theory is attempting to predict the weather. By that I mean that you are deriving an experiment that can only provide for UNRELIABLE conclusions. All of the writers that you sited, have changing and nuanced positions on Israeli politics. The state of US politics (Obama as president vs Bush as president, and democrats controlling Congress vs conservative republicans) is a FAR larger factor in the writers' tone and content. Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:51:37 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/my-list-of-american-journalists-with-family-connections-in-israel.html#IDComment27601634 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/roadmaps-offspring-iraq-war-and-settlement-freezes.html#IDComment27601103 I'm not in favor of war, nor am in favor of Iran. If the left stopped pandering to Iran's aggression, then there might be some hope as they wouldn't have a great deal of enablers adopting the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" approach, as if Israel is an enemy anyway. Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:42:13 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/roadmaps-offspring-iraq-war-and-settlement-freezes.html#IDComment27601103 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/gaza-is-tet-68-and-the-american-people-stop-believing-the-lies.html#IDComment27552264 "Emotionally perverted" It is important that Americans, and particularly Jewish Americans, become aware of Palestinian understanding of history, and motivated to improve their current condition. Gaza is not like Tet even in the obvious analogy that Phil suggested. There aren't 500,000 American soldiers in Israel. Israel is NOT a fascist state like Vietnam was. Only the odd neo-conservatives regard Israel/Palestinian as a global war. (It could be if more terrorist influences than even Hamas militia get involved). Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:42:46 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/gaza-is-tet-68-and-the-american-people-stop-believing-the-lies.html#IDComment27552264 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/olmert-tries-a-hail-mary-in-the-wapo-palestinians-are-to-blame-for-generous-offer-ii.html#IDComment27551744 No, I think that the settlement issue is CRITICAL. It is the tipping issue that indicates to the world (all of it) whether Israel intends to gradually expand and annex or intends to co-exist. Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:34:43 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/olmert-tries-a-hail-mary-in-the-wapo-palestinians-are-to-blame-for-generous-offer-ii.html#IDComment27551744 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/bad-dream-.html#IDComment27543787 Messing with his identity on the basis of a single political conclusion IS an imposition. The basis of Jewish identity is much deeper and much broader, so the political is relatively trivial. On the other hand, it is an ethical negligence to ignore that the actions of a group do not have collective ethical significance. To continue a policy that is brutal, when there are other options is wrong, and to not point that observation out, is a gross negligence however much a gamble on your part that you get it right. There is a wide range of ethically benign approaches to a Jewish identity, including ones that are Zionist, ones that are a-Zionist, ones that prayerful and ones that are more service oriented. Even a defensive approach is understandable and valid, if it only results in separation. When it gets to unnecessary harming of another, its time to speak up and know that that is what you are doing, and return to that if you deviate. Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:19:51 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/bad-dream-.html#IDComment27543787 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/last-night-i-posted-david-zellniks-take-on-theodor-herzl-my-response--lets-start-with-our-absolute-agreement-theodor-herzl.html#IDComment27542800 I agree with you that the period of urgent desparate need is passed. That is why I advocate for green-line Israel, ENOUGH. Resulting in live and let live. But it needs to be consented (including by Hamas in practice) and it needs care in getting there, and keeping agreements enforced. Lovely, You lie frequently about my views. Its getting irritating. I NEVER suggested undertaking any ethnic cleansing, and you know that well. On the contrary, I consistently advocate everywhere for equal rights and equal due process under the law in BOTH Israel and Palestine. If you want to disagree with my opinions, or even ridicule me, bother to target my comments, not your straw-dog imagination of them. Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:02:23 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/last-night-i-posted-david-zellniks-take-on-theodor-herzl-my-response--lets-start-with-our-absolute-agreement-theodor-herzl.html#IDComment27542800 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/last-night-i-posted-david-zellniks-take-on-theodor-herzl-my-response--lets-start-with-our-absolute-agreement-theodor-herzl.html#IDComment27542606 That is that the UN or some reformed global governance is needed. Nations are NOT the greatest scale, and there needs to be international law and means to enforce it. Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:59:00 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/last-night-i-posted-david-zellniks-take-on-theodor-herzl-my-response--lets-start-with-our-absolute-agreement-theodor-herzl.html#IDComment27542606 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/blumenthal-i-wanted-to-be-a-liberal-zionist-but-liberal-values-were-not-compatible-.html#IDComment27542194 If those that identify as French desire to self-govern, more power to them. If those that identify as Palestinian desire to self-govern, more power to them. If those that identify as Jewish (the people, not necessarily the religion) desire to self-govern, more power to them. If those that identify as civil, desire to self-govern, more power to them. Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:52:09 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/blumenthal-i-wanted-to-be-a-liberal-zionist-but-liberal-values-were-not-compatible-.html#IDComment27542194 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/blumenthal-i-wanted-to-be-a-liberal-zionist-but-liberal-values-were-not-compatible-.html#IDComment27542070 You know well, that I did NOT advocate for ridding anyone of Arab population, you lying idiot. Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:49:30 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/blumenthal-i-wanted-to-be-a-liberal-zionist-but-liberal-values-were-not-compatible-.html#IDComment27542070 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/olmert-tries-a-hail-mary-in-the-wapo-palestinians-are-to-blame-for-generous-offer-ii.html#IDComment27541454 And, I think the third interpretation is the accurate one. That is that Olmert is emphasizing the SUCCESS of institution-building that Fatah is undertaking, with positive results. That DIFFERS from the conventional wisdom of the left that "Hamas is pure as the driven snow", and that "Fatah is corrupt and incompetent". If you regard the establishment of reliable legal institutions (police, courts, judiciary) as a bad outcome, then we are in different universes. If you regard the lifting of blockades, the opening of free movement for Palestinians, as a bad outcome, then we are also in different universes. Its important to proceed beyond self-talk. The way to accomplish that is to review what is occurring from MULTIPLE perspectives, really multiple perspectives, not just left-versus right. But, up, left, down, detail, forest. NOT leftist self-talk. Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:38:29 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/olmert-tries-a-hail-mary-in-the-wapo-palestinians-are-to-blame-for-generous-offer-ii.html#IDComment27541454 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/gaza-is-tet-68-and-the-american-people-stop-believing-the-lies.html#IDComment27541147 My thesis on this is that Zionism as an ideology and hopefully as a practice is not based on barbarity, but on kindness and ethical reflection of one's actions and consciousness. It is important to accurately describe what you and others observed and as a good journalist restrain yourself from editorializing at all. That you have any glee at comparisons with the Vietnam movement is a distraction. It keeps you from expressing yourself clearly. It keeps you from being heard. And, it concludes false arithmetic. The left LOVES its "successes". And, we imagine to repeat former successes. "Proven" tactics seem reliable. "Proven" group process seems reliable. So, "this is parallel to Vietnam", and "this is parallel to South Africa". I get the hoping, the searching for a path, a solution. I despise the process of conclusion before full discussion, and the willful ignoring of critical differences between both. Gaza is not Tet, is an accurate statement. What network of relationships construct the brutality, is the important question. And, you can't answer that question by just bearing witness, though bearing witness is important. Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:32:10 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/gaza-is-tet-68-and-the-american-people-stop-believing-the-lies.html#IDComment27541147 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/very-bland-and-apologetic-map-in-the-times-.html#IDComment27540202 Except that the result of their actions is freedom of movement and removal of roadblocks, while the results of Hamas attempted massacres is Israeli massacre. The rule of law is so far superior to revolutionary status, as to be undeniable. You don't see that? Your supporters don't see that? Again and again, I would LOVE to hear a word of any critical inquiry of Walt or Mearsheimer or Finkelstein. Frankly, you sound more religious to me than my lubavitch son. Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:12:59 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/very-bland-and-apologetic-map-in-the-times-.html#IDComment27540202 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/blumenthal-i-wanted-to-be-a-liberal-zionist-but-liberal-values-were-not-compatible-.html#IDComment27539983 There is ostriching in opposing ostriching as well. Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:08:53 +0000 http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/blumenthal-i-wanted-to-be-a-liberal-zionist-but-liberal-values-were-not-compatible-.html#IDComment27539983