en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/6619272 Comments by Psychotherapist http://forward.com/articles/188247/richard-joel-failed-to-act-on-yeshiva-sex-abuse-al/#IDComment756694696 yes. that's what it seems like. Too messy for him/ too loaded.. maybe he was overloaded with the Lanner trauma details but still it was a moral error it seems.. Mon, 25 Nov 2013 20:37:58 +0000 http://forward.com/articles/188247/richard-joel-failed-to-act-on-yeshiva-sex-abuse-al/#IDComment756694696 http://forward.com/articles/188247/richard-joel-failed-to-act-on-yeshiva-sex-abuse-al/#IDComment756658430 Not sure it was Joel's place to "decide" whether Twersky had enough of a case. 34 men including Rabbi Kula and who knows who has yet to come forward. How much more do you need? Joel could have looked into this further. Mon, 25 Nov 2013 19:23:59 +0000 http://forward.com/articles/188247/richard-joel-failed-to-act-on-yeshiva-sex-abuse-al/#IDComment756658430 http://forward.com/articles/186491/yeshiva-victims-stare-down-lawyers-in-showdown-ove/#IDComment742897613 It is clearly pointless attempting to communicate with you as George Goldberg commented earlier. You are having a one sided conversation and attacking everyone. I'm done. Fri, 1 Nov 2013 02:15:17 +0000 http://forward.com/articles/186491/yeshiva-victims-stare-down-lawyers-in-showdown-ove/#IDComment742897613 http://forward.com/articles/186491/yeshiva-victims-stare-down-lawyers-in-showdown-ove/#IDComment742673262 You might want to stop commenting here or at least if you feel you need to keep doing so- start to notice your choice and impact of your words. You're really judging and hurting a lot of people on here with your remarks. You're not God and you don't get to decide who is better from therapy and who is not and who it has helped. I agree with other commenters here. Why are you so invested and hostile towards victims here? You have a lot of assumptions about a lot of things that are quite off the mark. Thu, 31 Oct 2013 16:22:39 +0000 http://forward.com/articles/186491/yeshiva-victims-stare-down-lawyers-in-showdown-ove/#IDComment742673262 http://forward.com/articles/186491/yeshiva-victims-stare-down-lawyers-in-showdown-ove/#IDComment742577548 YU needs to make things right. That's the point. Of course the victims don't need YU to say it happened to have them know what their experience was. Also I have no idea why you have a problem with that or need to rank on therapists. Thu, 31 Oct 2013 11:58:43 +0000 http://forward.com/articles/186491/yeshiva-victims-stare-down-lawyers-in-showdown-ove/#IDComment742577548 http://forward.com/articles/186491/yeshiva-victims-stare-down-lawyers-in-showdown-ove/#IDComment742271041 Let us all pray the judge will let the victims experiences into his heart. It takes abuse survivors a very long time to face their abuse. If the Statute of Limitation was longer in NY- this would not be an issue. I had no idea just how bad Finkestein's abuses were and this article is incredibly disturbing and upsetting. May justice be served finally and the pain of the victims be validated. Wed, 30 Oct 2013 20:26:25 +0000 http://forward.com/articles/186491/yeshiva-victims-stare-down-lawyers-in-showdown-ove/#IDComment742271041 http://forward.com/articles/183120/yu-reports-three-paragraphs-fails-to-do-justice-to/#IDComment710318487 Rabbi Kula, what a courageous and powerful article. So brave of you to come forward both in your willingness to face what happened and in this piece. It has touched so many already. I'm deeply sorry for the pain you went through. Wishing you much support in your healing. May your courage inspire all survivors to come forward and to know the only shame belongs to their abusers and to YU for their completely inadequate response to real pain. Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:46:41 +0000 http://forward.com/articles/183120/yu-reports-three-paragraphs-fails-to-do-justice-to/#IDComment710318487 http://forward.com/articles/175816/yeshiva-u-sex-abuse-probe-stall-amid-fear-and-mist/#IDComment635893592 Every person finds what's right for them. You may feel the only right way is for them to sue but it's complicated for survivors to sue. It can kick up flashbacks and post traumatic stress symptoms and if you've been following the Kolko case in Lakewood now in the news- you'll see that it take ENORMOUS courage to risk losing a lot that you care about if you take a stand. People don't even want to take a stand if they weren't victims and stand up to YU about this so you can imagine survivors face a lot-- (see above - everyone's written about this here- fear of being alienated by the community, made to feel something is wrong with "them" which is a tactic many leaders use to avoid accountablity etc..). It's not our place to judge really. But I can understand you might want them to experience long awaited justice or acknowledgement - or try to - for themselves. I wish that for them too but it has to be on their own time line. Each person decides what's healthiest for them. Suing is not necessarily everyone's answer- and not suing is not a sign of lack of health either. Pple are hopefully talking about it/ processing it in therapy and with one another. Mon, 6 May 2013 04:02:03 +0000 http://forward.com/articles/175816/yeshiva-u-sex-abuse-probe-stall-amid-fear-and-mist/#IDComment635893592 http://forward.com/articles/175816/yeshiva-u-sex-abuse-probe-stall-amid-fear-and-mist/#IDComment635606819 @lemondrop: people's psychological worlds are very complex. While it seems logical that parents who hear that their children were abused would be outraged and immediately protect their children/ take their side, unfortunately the reality does not always match up to this. What we SHOULD do and what we humans do are often worlds apart. There can be many reasons though I can't say what theirs were as I don't know. 1) parents may be in denial that anything so awful could have happened. It's extremely painful to hear that your child was abused. Parents often have a tendency to blame themselves for allowing this to have occurred/ not having protected their children enough so denying that it even happened keeps them from feeling overwhelmed by the pain and guilt of facing things. Does this feel just? Is this the "right" thing to do ultimately for your child? No of course not. Do kids/ adults come to therapy years later angry? yes. But it's how it plays out sometimes. They may also deny it if they know the rabbi in question and feel "him? he wouldn't do that?!"... it's very disturbing to learn someone you thought you could trust is a pedophile. Is it still necessary to face it...? YES! but we have to educate pple about denial and how it plays out and harms children so they can recognize their denial and not let it take over. 2) Given what has been said here many times- there is a terrible culture of fear in the orthodox world.. fear of loss of reputation . Some parents were likely afraid of the intimidation, possible retaliation against them for speaking out , trouble getting their kids into other schools (word travels fast b/w principals and rebbeim of other schools..). It takes massive courage for parents to stand up to the powers that be. Should they? yes! but do they? fear may block them. 3) Keep in mind many of these parents were holocaust survivors which means most were traumatized and might have been unable to handle hearing about more trauma/ may have blocked it out. The research shows that parents who were themselves victims often have trouble becoming advocates for their own children. Although you'd think they would of course champion the victim, they may not be able to access their advocacy til they heal their own traumas. How things SHOULD go and how they actually go given the specific histories and struggles of these parents don't always add up. Many were passive and sadly their kids suffered. We also don't know how many tried and were suppressed or intimidated. When tragedy strikes, it's human nature to try to blame SOMEONE... b/c we too dont like to hear it.. and accept. it. Blaming the parents is something you can leave to the victims if they need to sort this out. It's not our place to judge it even if we have questions - where were they. I can't see how it's helpful- it just maybe enables you to not hold YU fully accountable. They did make mistakes but it doesn't minimize what happened and how YU has reacted then and now. Sun, 5 May 2013 16:09:02 +0000 http://forward.com/articles/175816/yeshiva-u-sex-abuse-probe-stall-amid-fear-and-mist/#IDComment635606819 http://forward.com/articles/167588/student-abuse-claims-unheeded-by-yeshiva-u/#IDComment605398113 Actually, The Forward is the ONLY paper willing and brave enough to take on the dishonesty that some of Modern Orthodox leadership is currently perpetuating. Great if it gets them more readers... Then we can resume our commitment to truth rather than veiled truth to preserve egos. Kudos to them. It's never shocking to me to see how creative other MO jews are in trying to slander others- when they disagree with / can't bear any call for accountability of their leaders. We want so much not to be slandered by the outside world.. if this is so- we need to model this behavior- not perpetuate it by deriding anyone who challenges us. Are MO jews above the law? I wasn't raised that way. Thank you to the Forward for allowing space for differentiation and other opinions rather than forced conformity (promoted by the last comment above) which is leading to oppression of children, condoned pedophilia and clerical narcissism- not values I am proud to have in my community. Wed, 27 Mar 2013 18:22:36 +0000 http://forward.com/articles/167588/student-abuse-claims-unheeded-by-yeshiva-u/#IDComment605398113 http://forward.com/articles/173063/yu-responds-more-sharply-to-rabbinic-dean-s-raci/#IDComment597308118 The bigger issue is his negligence in taking his student's disclosure of abuse to the higher authorities which likely enabled continued years of abuse. YU's distancing themselves from his comment is one thing but they are now going to have to own not only their own negligence and cover ups but the fact that yet another one of their leaders failed to protect their students. This is a huge deal. Sun, 17 Mar 2013 00:02:11 +0000 http://forward.com/articles/173063/yu-responds-more-sharply-to-rabbinic-dean-s-raci/#IDComment597308118 http://forward.com/articles/171993/yeshiva-u-rabbi-george-finkelstein-acted-inappropr/#IDComment592828012 it is very difficult for victims of abuse to come forward not just at the age that the abuse happens but often EVER. It's very painful and shameful for them plus add to that how the community holds reputation as golden/ holds it against people. Blaming them for not coming forward is not helpful. Trying to have compassion for why they didn't/ THAT they are is more helpful. The community harbors INTENSE fears- fears of losing the good name of their family members if they come forward and take a stand for their child., fears of breaking with YU and the very fear that is exemplified right here in these comments- that they will be vilified if they come forward - even here people are criticizing them instead of trying to find compassion for why / what goes into admitting you were abused. Abuse victims are marginalized, judged and blamed by the community. Please try to find compassion. I do not agree with parents who did not come forward (though I can't judge them- it's not my place to) but the issue is our fear needs to be faced... we have to learn to be Jews and stand up for what we value not get confused by our cultural context and our need for approval valuing our reputations over our children's safety. This whole thing is very devastating and reveals hearts that our shut down/ disconnected... and have lost their way. Tue, 12 Mar 2013 00:12:03 +0000 http://forward.com/articles/171993/yeshiva-u-rabbi-george-finkelstein-acted-inappropr/#IDComment592828012