en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/723902 Comments by Onme_edson http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45727425 Finaly, I do not have anyother logins on this site, so please do not accuse me of being underhand in that way, it only reflects badly on you - I do not and never have felt the need to 'big' myself up on any debating forums. I have neither thumbed you up or down, as although I disagree with some of your statements, you are at least being positive and reaching the same conclusions as myself. >>>>>>>End of this debate<<<<<<<< Thu, 3 Dec 2009 21:14:38 +0000 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45727425 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45727395 In the plan put to the Creditors on 6th August, they gave two sets of figures, one for the plan - which would not pay out anything for at least 5yrs and one for liquidation of assets and closing down the bank (administration). Why do that if, as you say, it could not happen and why file for bankrupcy protetion in the US as well? The first meeting was in depth and specific - what Straumur did not take into consideration (as they were focused on saving the bank), was that given the circumstances at the time, a number of the creditors were willing to take the loss, as they needed capital to keep themselves afloat ( those with Secured debts would still have got the same either way). This why a revised plan was mooted for consideration. I would also point out that only 75% of the 250Mil Euros from subiquent realistion of assets, has been used in settling the Secured Debts - who do you think the remainder is earmarked for? Thu, 3 Dec 2009 21:14:13 +0000 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45727395 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45727367 CH, You are getting ahead of yourself a bit mate, the take it or leave it and get next to nothing comes later in the document - that sentence means exactly what I have said it does. Straumur thought they were presenting a 'fate acompli' as all they want to do is give rise to the new Straumur Investment Bank. The old one, Straumur-Bandras (or what ever it was called), which was the one BG and his son owned (which when nationalised and put into monitorium was then appointed with an administrative board - which incidently was a number of months before Straumur took control of BG's remaining assets, including us) is now being wound up, but unless it is done to the Composition plan, it means that the new Straumur cannot come into being (like the new Kaupthing and Landsbanki which have been renamed as well). Thu, 3 Dec 2009 21:13:51 +0000 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45727367 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45593275 CH, Whilst I do not doubt you have seen the proposal and minutes and lots of other info on the subject and formulated you opinions base on those, do not think that some of us have also researched this. In the 6th August presentation it clearly states: “The only realistic options to exit the Moratorium are for Straumur to agree a Composition with the Composition Creditors or for Straumur to be placed into Bankruptcy proceedings. Any such bankruptcy proceedings will be controlled by a trustee appointed by the Court.” That last sentence means administration, so why would they mention it if it could not happen? And on 24/08/09: “Following feedback from creditors, we have amended our plans…… financial projections presented to the Informal Meeting of Creditors held on 6 August, 2009…. The impact is to increase estimated recoveries……", that tells me that the creditors did ask for a re-evaluation. I won't get into an extended debate about this with you as we are never going to agree on some things so let’s just accept that we have both drawn similar conclusions on the evidence present, although we may have interpreted that evidence differently. Wed, 2 Dec 2009 20:04:27 +0000 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45593275 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45429568 Wocha Westside - haven't seen you around for a while, are they keeping you busy over there in Shilo? Tue, 1 Dec 2009 19:59:02 +0000 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45429568 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45429220 If they are asking for £1Mil from us as a contribution for improvements to the station I wonder how much they are putting up? I'd have though that although costley, installing signalling would be the cheaper option. If you are going the way of putting in a couple of new platforms and tracks for the LUL side, that would be far more expensive. Tue, 1 Dec 2009 19:55:00 +0000 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45429220 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45428712 BG may well have done, but he made it clear that this was a value on paper only. Just before Straumur took control there was and article on one of the more reputable European website in which BG stated this and actually put the sale price at £75.9 Million (providing the buyer took on the club debts of around £45mil at the time). It was widely reported that one of the reasons they did the asset grab was in fact to stop him selling off the assets for less than Straumur thought they were worth. Regarding the rationalisation plan - It was only accepted in principle in August, Straumur was basically told to go away and come back in six months with an improved package or face admin, it looks like they have managed to markedly improve the package. I would still like a new owner sooner rather than later though. Tue, 1 Dec 2009 19:49:05 +0000 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45428712 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45412358 An easy solution to this is to re-enstate the two NR platforms at UP. I mean how difficult would it be to operate a couple of shuttle services on match days out to Barking and into London? If they stopped at most of the other NR stations along the way I am sure a lot of people would use them. Granted it may cause a few problems with the regular services on those days but there must be way to work it out. Then all you would need to do is increase the size of the ticket hall - no new plant would be needed as tickets/oyster would be as they are on the underground. Tue, 1 Dec 2009 17:05:12 +0000 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45412358 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45409918 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Final bit<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Regarding the accounts, we also have yet to reach agreement with Curb's on his compensation claim - as that cannot be quantified as yet and will have a direct bearing on the accounts, it is the perfect excuse (as well as the non-disclosure agreement) to delay in publishing them. Tue, 1 Dec 2009 16:37:45 +0000 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45409918 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45409872 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Continued from last comment<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< The Value put on the club (Unrealistic if you ask me) at one point by Straumur (which included redevelopment potential of UP an moving to the new Olympic Stadium) was more than twice the value you mentioned - then someone must have had a dose of realism to bring it down a bit to what you have stated. At the end of the day, the value of the club is what a potential buyer is willing to pay, no matter what the paper value - this is something that the banking industry failed to take into account and why the recession. On paper their assets were worth Billions, but in the real world they were worth zilch. So they may want £130Mil (which I believe what the price has been all along) but might not attract a buyer at that price. Straumur was using their valuation to offset their debts, so now things have improved for them, they may be willing to accept a lower bid - they do not really want a football club as an asset as the traditional management model they use does not fit, which is why they are leaving it up to Duxbury and Co. Tue, 1 Dec 2009 16:37:16 +0000 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45409872 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45409830 There is another Creditors meeting on 8th Dec in which they hope to iron out the final details. This has been helped by the realisation of some assets to the tune of 250 Million Euros recently which has enabled them to cover 95% of their secured creditors loans - this was totaly unexpected and has, as you mentioned, puts them in a much more secure position. As a club, we do not have to sell players to balance the books and it has been made clear over the last year at least, only players requesting a transfer would be considered to be allowed to leave. Straumurs improved position also now discounts any 'stories' we have to sell players as they want the money - this is not and never was the case, why would they sell the best players and devalue the club? We are worth considerably more to them as a prem team than a championship one. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Continue in next comment<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Tue, 1 Dec 2009 16:36:44 +0000 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45409830 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45409590 CH; Whilst I appeciate it is difficult to reserch all the available material, you have made a couple of statements that are not correct. Firstly, Straumur have not yet come to an agreement with all of their creditors as yet in regards to their rationalisation plans - they are still not clear on how much they owe and to whom and some of the creditors are contesting each others claims - hence the reason they are applying for an extension to their monitorium process this (or next) week, to allow them time to sort these claims out via the courts if needs be. Regarding the £5 million they gave us, the rules had to be massaged considerably to get this through as the current situation prevents them loaning out money, so it had to be done as a 'gift'. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Continue in next comment<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Tue, 1 Dec 2009 16:34:21 +0000 http://www.westhamtillidie.com/2009/12/01/the-latest-club-accounts-rush-green-and-ron-greenwood/#IDComment45409590