IntenseDebate - Nigel Rathbone

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - WATCH: 'It was their c... · 5 replies · +1 points

These people are utter hypocrites: Raab, Mogg, Patel, IDS, and Johnson himself - all voted *repeatedly* against the government / Tory party official policy when Theresa May was PM, and suffered no sanctions.

I understand that they are claiming this was different because it was an issue of confidence. To be fair, I never understood why May didn't make the vote on her deal an issue of confidence - I actually think she might have got it through with a handful of Labour votes such as Nandy and Flint to compensate for the diehards like Francois and Baker. This could all have been done before the end of March and we'd be long gone from the EU now.

It seems to me that a confidence issue is Johnson's only way out of this mess. He can't, legally, now let us leave without a deal. Due to his own laziness and ineptitude there's no time to negotiate a new deal. So if he wants us out "come what may", he's got one option: take the only deal that is on the table, i.e. May's one, and re-present it as a confidence vote (having first readmitted all the lost whips of course). I suspect that would pick up quite a few Labour votes (Kinnock, Flint et al), even some Lib Dems (Norman Baker and the chap from Eastbourne whose name slips my mind). It could all be done and dusted by 31 October!

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - WATCH: The Prime Minis... · 2 replies · +1 points

If you can't tell the difference between the views I've expressed and those of Diane Abbott then you have serious problems with comprehension.

If Diane Abbott has made some of the same points I made about the disgraceful misuse of the police as political props, or Johnson's shambolic performance this afternoon, then I think she's quite right and I applaud her for calling him out. I also disagree with her on other issues and think she's generally a poor spokesperson for the Labour party. But in the grown up world, agreeing with someone about one issue doesn't mean you have to agree with them on everything.

If you can't address the substantive points I made - which you can't, because Johnson's performance this afternoon was indefensible and ought to worry any sensible Tory about his fitness to lead an election campaign - then you'd be wiser to keep quiet.

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - WATCH: The Prime Minis... · 3 replies · +1 points

Yes, I can imagine Diane Abbott saying exactly what I said in my last paragraph, she never stops banging on about how useless Corbyn is.

No need to address me as God, though. Mr Rathbone will do fine.

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - WATCH: The Prime Minis... · 2 replies · +1 points

You think "lawyers and politics don't mix well"?

Strange attitude. Presumably you believe that politicians should do what they want and not bother about whether it's legal. I think if more politicians understood the law we'd be better off, not worse.

Anyway, none of your off the shelf insults for the three individuals I chose do anything to back up the charge that they are socialists. As it happens I could have added lots of other names: Nicholas Soames, Ken Clarke, Anna Soubry, Antoinette Sandbach, Alistair Burt.... Jo Johnson? You'd no doubt have equally facile insults for all of them and more.

The fact that the modern Tory party has room for the likes of Mark Francois and no room for the likes of Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine (the best PM you never had in recent years) tells us much about the poison which has infected the party. It's just as bad as the madness that overcame Labour a couple of years ago - possibly even worse. A major realignment must be on the cards.

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - WATCH: The Prime Minis... · 8 replies · +1 points

You think people like Philip Hammond, Justine Greening and Dominic Grieve are socialists? Really?? If so I'm afraid you're beyond reason.

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - WATCH: The Prime Minis... · 11 replies · +1 points

So many things wrong with this.

Firstly, the police should not be used as props at an election rally. It's straight out of the Trump playbook. Aren't we better than that in Britain?

Secondly, he kept them waiting over an hour. The police have better things to do than listen to him waffle on.

On a related note, a policewoman behind him fainted after standing there so long. Johnson turned round and saw it, then turned back and continued banging on about Corbyn while doing nothing to help. This tells us what sort of man he is. Again, very Trump-esque.

But the most Trumpy part of all was his incoherent, waffling speech. The section on the police caution - anyone able to explain that?

I'm no fan of Corbyn - I think he's the worst leader Labour has ever had - and I admit I expected him to lose badly to May in 2017. But then she turned out to have an awful election campaign. And Corbyn to be a pretty effective campaigner, even if he's useless in just about every other respect. I'd assumed Labour wouldn't have the advantage of a shambolic Tory campaign this time around, but having just witnessed this speech now I'm not so sure. As yourselves: based on this performance, are you 100% certain that Johnson won't fall apart in the heat of a 5 week election campaign?

4 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - WATCH: Lib Dems could ... · 3 replies · +1 points

I doubt it's the majority, or anything like it, but certainly there would appear to be a significant number. Mostly the sensible ones such as Justine Greening, Ken Clarke, Antoinette Sandbach, Dominic Grieve and the like.

Equally, there's a large number of Labour MPs who despair of Corbyn and might be happier joining the Lib Dems. In the case of Labour, it might actually be a majority - after all 80% of the PLP had the good sense to express no confidence in Corbyn not so long ago.

In both cases, Labour and Tory, it's the membership which is massively out of kilter with mainstream opinion (i.e. the vast majority of normal, non-party member voters) and trying to force the MPs to do something very stupid in the name of ideological purity, crying traitor and betrayal if it's not delivered.

Those who call for their MPs to "get out of the party" would do well to ponder this: if all the sensible Labour MPs and all the sensible Tory MPs crossed the floor to sit with the Lib Dems, mopping up the remaining Change UK or whatever they're called on the way, the Lib Dems might actually gain the confidence of a parliamentary majority! And without even needing an election. Jo Swinson (or Ed Davey) could be prime minister by Christmas!

5 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - The campaign for a sec... · 0 replies · +1 points

If you truly believe that then you have no reason to fear another referendum when the terms of departure are known.

5 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - The campaign for a sec... · 2 replies · +1 points

If I hit the 'Delete' key, or close a document on my pc without saving changes, a message box will pop up to say "Are you sure?". Because it's perfectly legitimate to have second thoughts and realise you want to keep hold of something after all - or indeed it's very easy to hit delete in error.

If we agree that's a sensible fail-safe on a home computer system (and surely we do?) then the logic for doing the same thing on a far, far more important question is unanswerable.

Personally I know several people who voted leave who now say they wouldn't have done so had they realised the full consequences. Some of them did it on the spur of the moment and more than one person has told me they thought it was safe to register a protest because Remain was"obviously" going to win.

A second referendum now the consequences are clear(er) is simply asking people: are you sure?

5 years ago @ http://www.conservativ... - The Government's Chequ... · 0 replies · +1 points

....(cont"d)

Grayling and Fox are failing
And David Davis has no balls at all

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