en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/716729 Comments by NatashaKern http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44191811 Thank you for taking the time to provide this detailed response. This makes sense to me. I hope this works out as you envision it. And all those new writers on the Nelson list will be looking for agents! ;-) Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:32:18 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44191811 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44179607 Wait a minute. When I specifically asked TN editors about this very thing, I was told that Westbow was at arms length and they were not looking at anything from that division and had no intention of doing so! Would you mind clearly stating for the record that your FICTION editors are reviewing the manuscripts sent into Westbow with a view to acquiring them? {after previously rejecting them of course} We have this 'bait and switch' view because what Chip has expressed is exactly the information we have been given. No one is concerned about self-publishing if in fact the writer does receive books to sell at a reasonable price and can build a following. There is objection to the production of a "keepsake" your word and calling that the launch of a writing career that can lead to publication on the TN list. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:49:37 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44179607 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44178816 If only that were true, the endeavor would indeed be wonderful. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:38:04 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44178816 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44178735 Thank you Wendy for writing these comments. It is true that most unpublished writers have a vague idea of what agents do and really think it is just about getting that first sale. I have clients who have been with my agency for 15-20 years and they are obviously getting a great deal more than that! Many writers want to focus on writing and know they have support, counsel and action for everything else like: whether to write in different genres, or with a pseudonym, or for different publishers, or other avenues of publication, quit the day job, retain certain rights, ask for rights reversions, learn to read a royalty statement, collect funds that have not been paid, look for new opportunities, and dozens of other decisions that must be made and then pursued. There is no reason at all this should be an adverarial process rather than a win-win team process for writer, agent and publisher. And frankly, I have always appreciated the fact that Nelson is a great team player when it comes to including me on everything and my client being thrilled with the result. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:36:36 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44178735 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44126523 And further those who are good at pitching invariably turn out to have training as actresses or sales people or presenters which has zero correlation to writing ability. We attend conferences for many reasons-- to see our clients, to meet prospective clients whose work we have already read; to meet with editors and other agents and professionals; to cheer on clients winning awards; to present workshops that can inform and genuinely support new writers . . . a longer list here. Bottom line: if you have a ms. and want to connect to agents go to websites. Guess what? We read all submissions for FREE! And often provide feedback if we are genuinely interested. I signed a writer at the last conference I attended I had been exchanging emails with for nine months. That happens. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:28:49 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44126523 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44126505 The moral here is don't pitch at conferences!! Do you really think we go to conferences trolling for clients? To sit in a windowless room all day hearing a new pitch every ten minutes when just at my agency we get 10,000 submissions each year! I've long lobbied for group appointments so writers can actually get to know us. Have pointed out that we respond to WRITTEN material not pitches and thus email queries are FAR more effective. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:28:36 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44126505 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44125773 I should mention this is not just theory on my part. A few years ago to understand this option better I "published" a half dozen books via Lightning source to truly get the process. I still contend it won't work for fiction. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:18:36 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44125773 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44125646 I have no trouble believing that at all. Books have been sold direct to consumers for decades with success. Some e-publishers are doing very well and I have a few clients who have written for them and made a nice living. Harlequin's new Carina will presumably be such an endeavor. The traditional model absolutely isn't for everyone a new modes are emerging. But I know of NO ONE who has had this success with POD in the ASI model-- in fact they state clearly that selling 500 books is considered a "best seller" Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:16:21 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44125646 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44125130 I agree Mike. See my later comments. I have encouraged some writers including clients to self-publish. I think it is important for writers to understand that a keepsake is what they are buying from ASI and not an avenue to a career as a writer. I have no problem with self-publishing or even TN making a profit from that. I have no problem with downloaded books from websites--I've even purchased a few. I've encouraged some clients to publish their out of print titles or even NEW works on Kindle. I just want it to be clearly stated to the writer exactly what they will receive for their money and what exactly TN is doing for them. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:06:47 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44125130 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44124810 POD books are not being sold through any of these alternative avenues either! Are you saying church bookstores are going to be ordering from the ASI catalog? Sure back of the room sales are a staple of income for speakers and they'be been doing this for decades before POD was invented and the cost for the POD books is higher than for a regular printed book. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:00:00 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44124810 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44124468 Laura, I really appreciate your insightful and intelligent comments and hanging in with this dialogue. Why not go drectly to ASI if a writer has a burning desire to be in the POD catalog and order a few books for themselves? Do they really need the TN or HQ logo (that won't actually be there?) for an additional fee? ASI needs the business and is willing to pay for the leads and it is a great way to "monetize the rejections" which they will re-read and like later on after a $1,000 fee has been paid. Why not just charge reading fees if the goal is to get the submission actually read and considred? Surely it could be for a lesser amount! Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:53:06 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44124468 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44123952 And finally, 8.I recommend self-publishing if it is appropriate. It is already an option I consider. My client Nikki Arana self-published her nonfiction book Through The Eyes of Christ successfully. She knew nothing about how to do this and is not a techno-oriented person. She spent $500 and in a few weeks was making solid sales on a book that had been edited, proof read, well-designed, and had a great blurb and when we reach a sufficient sales level, it can be presented to a larger press. Would it have been better to have paid an additional $1,000 or more to AuthorSolutions? I don’t think so. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:41:49 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44123952 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44123917 7. Sure some nonfiction books can reach their readers via a website and can even be sold as a downloadable book—perhaps better than this POD model. The problem with doing this with fiction is that it really is hard to succeed in this way—and it is FAR better to have a good book you can market that provides higher profit margin than a POD book will. A “best-selling” POD book sells 500 copies. I have a client who did start as a self-publisher. She sold 15,000 copies of her first trade paper novel ON HER OWN! You think I didn’t take notice of that??!! So consider why she looked for an agent after her third book had achieved similar success. Yep, there is a point to having one! And now she is under contract with three current publishers. She could not have pulled this off with a POD vanity book. She did it with a GOOD self-published book and an immense amount of very hard work on her part Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:41:05 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44123917 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44123890 6. The long existing self-publishing model did mean the writers ended up with hundreds of books in the basement and had to figure out how to sell them. This newer vanity model where the writer gets listed in a catalog of 85,000 other books that no one ever looks at is hardly an improvement for the cost. A client signing books this week said B&N told her they never stock self-published books any more because of the pressure from PUBLISHERS to keep the shelf space for their books. Do you think Walmart will? In the past going from bookstores to help get a book available especially a regional title could work. No longer. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:40:28 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44123890 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44123788 5.Yes, there are agents who do not even negotiate an offer and accept anything; who don’t know e-rights from their elbow; who have never seen let alone helped to develop a marketing plan; who can’t edit proposals; who don’t brainstorm ideas; or write jacket copy; or get new covers designed; screen outside publicists; partner with the publisher; handle subsidiary rights like film rights or foreign rights and the dozens of other things competent agents do daily. But many agents do these things and far more! How many writers can do these things for themselves? Yes, writers need agents who actually are good at what they do. Don’t hire a shyster lawyer to represent you or an incompetent architect or agent. Check the bona fides. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:38:15 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44123788 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44123607 3.Aside from actual talent, there is training involved in every human endeavor. College, graduate work, apprenticeships, coaches, teachers, etc. Amazingly, writing is no exception. As Robin Lee Hatcher points out in her blog, writers really do need editors and years of training and practice to actual become masters of their craft and art. I have never understood why writing is the one thing that somehow people think they are magically born knowing. Even those who are successes in any field still have mentors, take refresher courses, increase their skills and work with coaches, agents and editors. 4.In addition to talent and training and lots of practice in an endeavor that has a long learning curve, there is a need to work with a support team that includes agent and publisher to achieve success. There are different venues that are appropriate for different books. Just as one pianist is best served playing part time in a pizza parlor, another in a night club and another in an orchestra, books have different potential. Publishers of necessity work on books that have a broad appeal. Even all well-written books do not. For the team to reach the audience is an equally great endeavor. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:34:51 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44123607 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44123550 1.Everyone wants to be published. Really! My husband forbids me to mention what I do when we travel because sure enough the waitress or hotel clerk will ‘have a manuscript in a drawer” they want me to read. So it is a not surprising to look at this potential market like an untapped China waiting to be sold. 2.Life isn’t a level playing field. Everyone is not talented at everything or even many things. Confession: I personally cannot sing or dance. The majority of people are not going to sing in Carnegie Hall, compete in the Olympics or perform heart surgery—or get a publishing contract. There really is a question of talent as we can see from Idol contestants. You’ve been away from agenting for quite a while Mike, and, as you say, Nelson only accepts agented material. Perhaps you have forgotten how truly unpublishable much of what we receive actually is. It is I suppose a good thing you are willing to provide a vanity service for these writers. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:33:52 +0000 http://michaelhyatt.com/why-agents-may-be-opposed-to-self-publishing.html#IDComment44123550