en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/725909 Comments by JoshGarrington http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2011/05/two-battles-of-emerging-missional-leaders/#IDComment156427615 Being a local leader and never having attended any seminary I would argue knowing Greek and having read Augustine and Bohnhoffer are not requirements to being an effective leader in the faith community. As far as I know, I am the only local leader in my congregation who even has a college degree of any sort and I watch them proudly and effectively represent Christ to the world, making an effort to continuously learn more about their faith through whatever methods available. Conversely, I know pastors who have had 2 (or more) years of seminary training who stagnated once they didn't have a teacher pounding the information into them. What I'm reading is that your focus seems to be on the academy adjusting to meet the local church, but maybe that thesis should be expanded to included the local church also making an effort to reach out to the academy and guide them in. It's easier to land a boat at the dock if someone is waiting there to tie-up for you. Thu, 26 May 2011 17:55:03 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2011/05/two-battles-of-emerging-missional-leaders/#IDComment156427615 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2011/05/two-battles-of-emerging-missional-leaders/#IDComment156427529 I thought I responded to this last week, but I must have forgotten to hit submit. I do agree with what you're saying, but the pragmatist in me sees a major hurdles. How much is enough? Some congregations wouldn't even consider having someone pastor their community without a doctorate. Many would require 4 years of seminary at least. Tackling that level of training without removing oneself from daily life (including work) would take an extraordinary amount of time. Thu, 26 May 2011 17:54:46 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2011/05/two-battles-of-emerging-missional-leaders/#IDComment156427529 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2011/05/two-battles-of-emerging-missional-leaders/#IDComment154119672 I sit looking at basically the same situation from the other side of the table. I knew starting out that full time professional ministry is not for me (not because I disagree with the concept, but because it's not what God has planned for me at this point in my life). I do, however, believe that the local church needs increased exposure to, and co-operation with, the academy. I've often told my wife that I would love nothing more than to take 4 years and attend seminary, and then go back to doing what I'm doing now, but I'd be better equipped to serve in the lay leadership of my local congregation as I do now. Unfortunately, that's not an economically viable option for me. So I'm left with reading books in the time I can find, listening to free online courses (usually while doing something else), and scraping up whatever other resources I can find. The material available is immense. The problem is that I'm left working through it mostly by myself and not in community with other students under the guidance of a teacher. Where is the middle ground? I don't know. Thu, 19 May 2011 21:38:58 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2011/05/two-battles-of-emerging-missional-leaders/#IDComment154119672 http://stuffchristianslike.net/2010/10/win-5-copies-of-gabe-lyons-new-book/#IDComment102503424 Probably about 15 books or so. Tue, 5 Oct 2010 17:22:21 +0000 http://stuffchristianslike.net/2010/10/win-5-copies-of-gabe-lyons-new-book/#IDComment102503424 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/09/the-arrogance-of-christendom-theology/#IDComment101550892 "What will become of us when our power and privilege is stripped away?" We'll find out what Christians in the first 3 1/2 century of the Church really lived like. Wed, 29 Sep 2010 20:56:09 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/09/the-arrogance-of-christendom-theology/#IDComment101550892 http://bensternke.com/2010/06/why-i-believe-in-mid-sized-communities-part-9/#IDComment81399565 I notice you used the pronoun "her" to refer to the author of Hebrews. That has my interest sparked. I'd be curious to know more about your authorship theory. Tue, 22 Jun 2010 12:44:02 +0000 http://bensternke.com/2010/06/why-i-believe-in-mid-sized-communities-part-9/#IDComment81399565 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/on-how-flat-leadership-works-for-mission-the-three-p-’s/#IDComment80308178 I love these ideas. While I can't say for sure that I fully grasp the idea, I can say it tickles my brain and is beginning to fascinate me. I see two concerns, at least as far as my fledgling understanding goes. 1) From my reading, the Biblical example is nominally hierarchical. Acts and the epistles are full of higher authority giving instructions, as well as people appealing to higher authorities. Now, having said that, our denominational structures have shifted that hierarchy dangerously top heavy, but that's another issue. 2) From a purely pragmatic perspective, I tend to think any flat structure would naturally drift toward hierarchy. The natural human condition is to be part of a hierarchy and we are most comfortable there. That doesn't mean a flat structure could not be maintained, just that it might require an extraordinary amount of effort and focus to do so. Tue, 15 Jun 2010 21:37:50 +0000 http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/on-how-flat-leadership-works-for-mission-the-three-p-’s/#IDComment80308178 http://stuffchristianslike.net/2010/06/win-20-subscriptions-to-relevant-magazine/#IDComment78945846 Popular Science, probably, but it's been a while. Mon, 7 Jun 2010 12:36:45 +0000 http://stuffchristianslike.net/2010/06/win-20-subscriptions-to-relevant-magazine/#IDComment78945846 http://stuffchristianslike.net/2010/05/win-an-ipod-shuffle-or-come-see-conan-o%e2%80%99brien-with-me/#IDComment76911141 Some favorites: internetmonk Parchment and Pen Boars Head Tavern ESPN - NFC North LifeAsMission Reclaiming the Mission The Gospel-Driven Church The Rubicon Ben Sternke Koinonia Mon, 24 May 2010 15:31:08 +0000 http://stuffchristianslike.net/2010/05/win-an-ipod-shuffle-or-come-see-conan-o%e2%80%99brien-with-me/#IDComment76911141 http://stuffchristianslike.net/2010/05/win-6-different-books-by-6-different-authors-today/#IDComment75746723 Periodically for a bit over a year. I've subscribed to the feed and read regularly for 4 or 5 months. Mon, 17 May 2010 03:20:42 +0000 http://stuffchristianslike.net/2010/05/win-6-different-books-by-6-different-authors-today/#IDComment75746723 http://stuffchristianslike.net/2010/05/win-5-autographed-craig-groeschel-books/#IDComment72446157 Listened to: Abandoned to God (a biography of Oswald Chambers) Read: Pastor - The Theology and Practice of Ordained Ministry (Will Wilimon) Tue, 4 May 2010 17:10:20 +0000 http://stuffchristianslike.net/2010/05/win-5-autographed-craig-groeschel-books/#IDComment72446157 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59940423 Thanks for the discussion. It's kept my brain cranking on a fairly dull friday. Fri, 5 Mar 2010 21:20:55 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59940423 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59927697 Christianity is practiced in community. We experience God in community and we share and interpret his word in community. Some of that community is physically present around us, some of it is the tradition left to us by the saints that went before us. To an Eastern, Roman Catholic (or even Anglican and Lutheran to a lesser extent) Christian this is a no-brainer statement. Western Evangelicals have tended to take the Reformation principals past their logical conclusion and made Christianity primarily a faith of the individual experience. While that's true, it's only a small portion of what our faith can and should be. So when people start to emphasize the personal/now experience of the faith to me, I tend to push back and try to emphasize the corporate/timeless experience of the faith…but I've also been reading too much Church History and Liturgy. Fri, 5 Mar 2010 19:25:07 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59927697 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59927674 I'd agree with every word of that, which is precisely why I would include the remainder of Church Tradition as a secondary confirmation. If I interpret the "spare the rod, spoil the child" to be support for abusing my children, I could look back on 2000 years of fellow believers and probably find a dozen well respected ones that agreed with me, but I would find 10 times that many who disagreed. That should cause me to question my interpretation. Fri, 5 Mar 2010 19:24:54 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59927674 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59924656 Couldn't agree more. Fri, 5 Mar 2010 18:56:30 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59924656 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59922387 I see your point equating testing something against scripture and and against Church tradition. I'd even be willing to stipulate that Scripture is a part of Church tradition, so confirmation through scripture is confirmation from Church tradition. Where it get's sticky is that there is a lot of Church tradition that is derived from scripture but not inspired. That portion is a valuable resource but it does not hold the same weight as scripture. Therefore scripture should be our primary source of authority (i.e. Sola Scriptura), with the remainer of Church tradition a secondary source of confirmation. I would argue that statements about God taken directly from scripture are non-negotiable (assuming they are translated and interpreted correctly), i.e. "God is Love". Statements about God taken from the Church councils, Church Fathers, Reformers, etc. are valuable but at the very least are open to discussion. That's all I was trying to get at. Fri, 5 Mar 2010 18:37:00 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59922387 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59922357 "the Bible isn't some abstract piece of literature that descended from on high" I think I know what you're getting at, but just to confirm, that statement could be read as arguing AGAINST inspiration. I'm assuming you do believe the Bible is divinely inspired and you are just trying to get the point accross that the divinely inspired content was put on the page through the context of a human author. Is that correct? Fri, 5 Mar 2010 18:36:43 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59922357 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59920163 Amen to that! I'm only a father of two (with the oldest just barely 3), but you just articulated very clearly something I am currently learning. To tangent off of this a little more. We can also know God deeper once we are placed in the earthly equivalent roles that God uses to describe himself. For example, while my technical understanding of the passages of the Bible that refer to God as our father hasn't changed; my innate, deep down, comprehension of the full impact of those statements has increased exponentially since becoming a father myself. Fri, 5 Mar 2010 18:23:27 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59920163 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59809628 I agree with you. There is a definate, necessary, experiencial aspect of knowing what God is. That's not a freestanding requirement though. We don't know what God is just because we think we have experienced Him. That opens us up to a lot of New Age theology. Instead, we know what God is because we have experienced Him in a way that is confirmed primarily by the Bible but also to a lesser extend by Church tradition and by seeing God show through other Christians. Thu, 4 Mar 2010 23:58:27 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59809628 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59800599 We were just talking about this at our Sunday night small group Bible study a couple weeks ago. We're doing 1 John where there is a large emphasis on "God is Love". For me that is both an encouragement and a challenge. An encouragement because I know that God is what he says he is and I can have absolute confidence in that. A challenge, because I represent Christ to the non-believers around me and the characteristics I portray are going to be attributed to Him, good or bad. That leaves me the challenge of allowing God to show His true self through me, not wresting control and allowing my sinful nature to be an incorrect representation of Him. Thu, 4 Mar 2010 22:40:06 +0000 http://lifeasmission.com/blog/2010/03/god-is-as-god-acts/#IDComment59800599