gdp's Comments

Wayfaring Artist : Considering lines...

Thu, 26 Aug 2010 05:37:38 +0000

Hey, I want credit for pointing out the mooning horses. :-)

FrJody.com : The Changing face of global Christianity: China

Thu, 26 Aug 2010 05:19:05 +0000

Not a coincidence at all I'd say. China seems to have difficulty figuring out what to do with Christianity; I've heard some Chinese thinkers see Christianity as a key to the rise of the West, but as with all things foreign (or seen as foreign) there is a degree of suspicion, not least from the government that fears a fifth column or at least a large number of people with values at odds with those promoted by the Communist Party.

Wayfaring Artist : Zucchini Love

Mon, 19 Jul 2010 03:33:49 +0000

Hmmm... I think that ought to make some good Zucchini bread.

FrJody.com : In Praise of Freedom and Loving One's Neighbors

Wed, 30 Jun 2010 06:13:58 +0000

Indie, It's not meant to be limiting, but the only justifiable basis for patriotism from a Christian perspective. Just War is based not upon threat to our own lives, but to threats against our neighbors... to be sure, few modern wars could live up to traditional just war ideals--indeed, it may be doubtful that even the last "good war" that most people point to, i.e. WWII, would pass an examination of having been fought as a just war, despite being justified on just war grounds.

FrJody.com : Nostalgia for Pagan Virtue

Tue, 29 Jun 2010 04:14:56 +0000

Hotspur, I went back and re-read some of my materials tonight when I had a few minutes and confirmed what I thought, which is that the Rabbinic discussions of when life begins, like those of Thomas Aquinas and others, which led them to talk about when the soul enters the child, were heavily influenced by Aristotle, Plato and the Stoics (since none of these groups existed in a vacuum). The perspective you mention is one that is similar to where Aquinas winds up via the thought of Aristotle (the best "science" of the day). At any rate, my understanding is that Judaism has only legitimated abortion in cases where there is a threat to the woman's life... I recall reading that in "Contemporary Jewish Religious Thought" and "20th Century Jewish Thought" though I have neither with me. Bakke actually has a more extended discussion of the tradition as well. I think the primary thing to remember is that while Christianity and Judaism are separate faiths, they do share a common ethical framework in many ways. It would be wrong, i think, to allow concern over contemporary social and political persuasions to make us reinterpret a history that is well attested, though caution over how some might take things out of context is important. I've added some of Bakke's discussion of specifically Jewish sources below the "more" link above... since I'm away from my books, I have to rely on Google books and my memory, so take it for what it's worth.

FrJody.com : Nostalgia for Pagan Virtue

Mon, 28 Jun 2010 19:50:47 +0000

Hotspur, I\'m at a conference in MS and can\'t reply at length. I will say that the early Christian beliefs about the sanctity of life can clearly be traced back to Jewish critiques of pagan practice (Molech was not looked on with fondeness), which were extended and popularized by the early Church. At the same time, it\'s important to remember that Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism do not so much have a parent-child relationship, as a sibling relationship with 2nd Temple Judaism, and that some of the traditions of Rabbinic Judaism are a development of those earlier practices. contemporary Judaism may best be looked at as an older sibling, who has maintained the original language of the parent, but looking to it as definitive of the tradition, so that if something is a certain way in contemporary or even early Rabbinic Judaism, and different in early Christianity, then it is assumed that Rabbinic Judaism is closer, it isn\'t always the case. At any rate, you\'re right that the primary impetus to ethical discussion in Judaism has been the survival of the Jewish people, and the influence of the frontier. It is, I think, allowing too much of the culture war mentality to enter into the discussion to play down the Jewish critique of such pagan customs. Jews may have privileged the life of the mother, but they never (as far as I know) defended the exposure of children, widespread abortion, infanticide or the power of life and death exercised (in theory) by a Roman Pater Familias. nonetheless, I think your caution may be warranted for those who might\'ve made some assumptions about the culture war from the opposite direction. I think there are some places to look for some interesting inter-relation however, some of which Bakke highlights, between contemporary Christianity and Judaism, and the ways each arrived where they are. It's also important to note that Christianity isn't uniform about when life begins. The western church has been much more nuanced about that, using the science of the day to talk abotu ensoulment etc... whereas the Eastern church has avoided those questions. It would be interested to look at the history of those questions and interpretations in Rabbinic Judaism and to look at the multiplicity of thoughts that likely existed in 2nd Temple Judaism. I'll have to look into that more later. If you find anything that relates to that, please post it or share it. Thanks for the conversation.

FrJody.com : Trapped in the 1960's

Sat, 29 May 2010 14:16:49 +0000

Rob, Hotspur, I think this situation plays itself out in a self-defeating way in many congregations. During my brief time ministering in congregations I have heard repeated laments that there are so few youth or "young" adults (and in most Episcopal Churches, "young" seems to refer to anyone below 50... which makes sense given the increasing average age of many of our small congregations). Despite these laments however, there is a common theme. When you get folks to talk through their desires, what comes out is that they actually want the young adults to come in and take over roles in what is already going on--in other words, many of these folks, who have been very faithful in their involvement and we should not forget that--want to "retire" and pass on the hard work to other, younger members. The problem is two-fold: they don't recognize that most younger folks have no interest in continuing things as they have set them up. Many of our Church organizations are simply unattractive to younger adults and they don't have the time or inclination to allow themselves to be drafted into doing the grunt work for things they don't find inspiring or useful. When new new leadership emerges despite these challenges there is often a struggle for control as the long-time members don't understand why things are changing and try to re-exert control. In the end, many of the younger members are disgusted by the behavior and simply leave. When this happens, the organization or congregation are back where they started, except that they're a year or two closer to the death of the organization as they continue in terminal decline. Hotspur, The problem with that scenerio--and I don't doubt that it may come to pass--is that the folks who try to flee the corporate world will likely be assuming there are positions available in the church that will pay a living wage. Those positions are drying up, and will continue to do so. Trends indicate that the two types of congregations that are becoming more prevalent are large congregations of over 1000 members, and small congregations of under 100. The reasons for this are complex, but what is happening is not that small congregations are disappearing, but rather that mid-size congregations (often consiered large in the Episcopal landscape) are being pulled in two as people seek more intimacy and gravitate toward smaller congregations, as they simultaneously burn themselves out trying to offer the programming that people expect, which is offered at a much higher level in very large congregations. It's actually rather ironic that I have found myself in successive full-time ministry positions since I recognized this trend was occurring before I went to seminary and even during my discernment process indicated my expectation and desire to be bi-vocational. Of course, I envisioned myself teaching at a university and serving a congregation, and those academic jobs--at least in the liberal arts--are drying up as well. So I'm reevaluating what other field I may be involved in, but I don't imagine that I will spend my entire ministry employed full-time by the church. Indeed, I shudder to think about it because I think the pay-for-ministry model warps the pastoral relationship. But that's another discussion.

Wayfaring Artist : My world is a flood...

Tue, 4 May 2010 23:46:19 +0000

One of the things that I keep thinking about as I look at these pictures is the fact that only hours before, the water was so much higher. I came back home on the same route earlier in the day and the folks who are on their porches were looking at water right off their first or second step from the top... I also noticed that, in the area right around us where the flooding hit, the older houses were build up at least a half level--often more--and seemed to escape the worst damage, while newer homes were build on low crawl-spaces or slabs and, of course, received worse damage. It makes me wonder what happened that folks decided they no longer needed to build up... At any rate, it was very sad seeing folks getting their things out of their homes on Monday and today...

Wayfaring Artist : A recipe and a puppy

Sat, 3 Apr 2010 01:44:34 +0000

You know, I realize you hate dried herbs, but we do have some dried chives that would have increased chivy-ness when combined with the fresh chives. Just reminding you... :-p My recent post Linkage: Interesting reads from around the net

Wayfaring Artist : Dear Diary

Fri, 2 Apr 2010 04:09:36 +0000

I feel like I'm intruding... My recent post Linkage: Interesting reads from around the net

FrJody.com : The Message of Palm Sunday: The Sunday of the Passion

Thu, 1 Apr 2010 12:35:09 +0000

I hope the observance of Good Friday is not falling out of fashion with us... I hope it's becoming more popular. I still wonder if engaging in a more robust Palm Sunday Procession might take the edge off of the short-changed feeling you have. What if we started down in the neighborhood for instance, or across the street at the Chamber of Commerce? Of course, there is such a thing as going too far the other way. I've heard of one Episcopal Church that goes so far as to have a Donkey and a person playing the part of Jesus, as well as people playing Roman Guards etc... and evidently on Palm Sunday, at the elevation, they fire off a Canon outside the Church building.... My recent post Linkage: Interesting reads from around the net

FrJody.com : The Message of Palm Sunday: The Sunday of the Passion

Thu, 1 Apr 2010 12:31:00 +0000

Yes indeed. One of the things I love about the 15-16-17th centuries is that English writing is sort of like a crap shoot as far as what spelling will be used. The funniest thing is when people use multiple spellings of the same word in the same text. I've heard someone quip that in that time, only an uneducated person would have only one way to spell a word... not sure if that's true, but it certainly seems so. It would also make phonics and "sounding out" a bit more difficult. Though maybe it could give us some insight into the way people talked. My recent post Linkage: Interesting reads from around the net

FrJody.com : The Message of Palm Sunday: The Sunday of the Passion

Thu, 1 Apr 2010 03:19:51 +0000

Too long and involved? Who could you be referring to, I don't understand... :p

FrJody.com : The Message of Palm Sunday: The Sunday of the Passion

Thu, 1 Apr 2010 00:16:56 +0000

My comment about taping eyelids open was referring to the need, I believe, we have to be challenged by the ubiquity of sin in our lives--I think the Palm Sunday Liturgy as it stands in the BCP does this in one of the most effective ways I've seen.

FrJody.com : The Message of Palm Sunday: The Sunday of the Passion

Thu, 1 Apr 2010 00:09:00 +0000

Maybe one antidote to the feeling of one being short-changed is to expand the procession and have one more in keeping with the original, i.e. with stations and more reflection before moving into the Eucharist? Also... I just want to say how thankful I am to have folks in the congregation who actually care about the liturgy and pay attention to it! You folks are awesome.

FrJody.com : The Message of Palm Sunday: The Sunday of the Passion

Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:58:41 +0000

It's not as if the liturgists of the 79 prayerbook made it up out of whole cloth. The Palm procession on Palm Sunday was a tradition that began early on in Jerusalem and gradually spread elsewhere and was actually *restored* by the 79 book (as it had been included in the Book of Offices, the predecessor to the current book of occaisonal services earlier) Before this, the Sunday before Easter was simply "The Sunday next before Easter" or, later "The Sunday of the Passion," which is why that title still has pride of place in the BCP, i.e. "The Sunday of the Passion: Palm Sunday." The First BCP of 1549 included the Matthean Passion narrative as the Gospel reading for this day, and the collect was as follows:

Almightie and euerlastynge God, whiche of thy tender loue towarde man, haste sente our sauior to suffre death upon the crosse, that all mankynde shoulde followe the example of his greate humiltie; mercifully graunte that we both followe the example of his pacience, and be made partakers of his resurreccion; thoroughe the same Jesus Christ our lord.

This pretty much demonstrates that the focus of the Liturgy was the Cross. This was true of the Sarum liturgy as well (the medieval use based out of Salisbury, which became the basis for the BCP), which is where the collect is taken from, as well as the Epistle reading. From the Medieval period onward, the Liturgy of the Palms was an outdoor procession, serving in many ways as a counterpoint to the stations of the cross, it was never, as far as I know, the focus of the eucharistic service, which seems to have been focused on the Passion from early on. By the reading of the Passion Gospel, the 79 BCP simply follows tradition as well. Marion Hatchett in his Commentary on the American Prayerbook gives a general overview of this history and how we got to where we are now:

At the Eucharist [...] The collect, psalm, and lections point us toward the approaching death of Christ upon the cross. The alternative Old Testament lections from Second Isaiah have been traditionally interpreted by the church in terms of the passion of our Lord. The gradual, Psalm 22 or Psalm 22:1-11, has been used as a tract since the middle ages, that is, a Psalm used before the Gospel of the day. Phillipians 2:5-11 as the epistle of the day was appointed in the earliest Roman lectionary and has been the Epistle in all editions of the Prayer Book. Some commentators consider this to be a quotation from an early Christian hymn. It is certainly one of Paul's primary statements of the doctrine of Christ, stressing as it does both our Lord's humble obedience unto death and his exaltation as Lord. It might be compared with Colosians 1:11-20. The Passion Gospel In some of the oldest lectionaries the Matthean account of the passion (Mt. 26:1--27:66) was read on Palm Sunday. The Lukan and Johannine accounts were read respectively on Wednesday and Friday, the traditional station days. Mark was omitted because it was mistakenly considered to be extracted from Matthew. At a later stage, when a liturgy developed for the Tuesday of Holy Week, the Markan account was read on that day. The 1549 Book used an abbreviated version of the traditional Matthean passion (Mt. 26:1-27:56, omitting the burial) on Sunday and appointed that of John for Good Friday. The narrative of Mark was split between Monday and Tuesday and that in Luke between Wednesday and Thursday. In the 1662 revision Matthew 26 was shifted to Morning Prayer as the second lesson and verses 55 and 56 of chapter 27 were omitted in order to give a better climax, the confession of the centurion, "Truly this was the Son of God." The present revision appoints the three synoptic accounts to be read on Palm Sunday in a three-year cycle. The rubrics restore certain traditions, such as the manner in which the passion is announced, and the possibility of a dramatic presentation in which different persons may take specific roles with the congregation speaking for the crowd. So that the people may be more attentive to readings of such length, the congregation is permitted to sit until the verse which mentions the arrival at Golgotha. In a liturgy of this content and weight the use of the Nicene Creed and the confession of sin seems unnecessary if not redundant; a rubric allows for their omission.

The thing to take away, is, I suppose, that it is the Palm Sunday Procession that is optional in the prayer book liturgy, not the Passion Narrative, which means that--whether right or wrong--the emphasis is to be placed there. The issue of more people being at the Sunday before Easter than would be at Good Friday is, from my perspective, an important one pastorally, but not decisive, as this shows. If anything, we could perhaps blame the early and medieval Christian fascination with the death of Christ for this (imagine that :-p), but not, I think, advertising (besides, what sort of advertising is it in our culture that is so avoidant of death, to emphasize it... if anything it is the joy and pomp of processions such as that of the Palms that speak to people in that way--and, not, I think in a necessarily bad way).

FrJody.com : The Message of Palm Sunday: The Sunday of the Passion

Mon, 29 Mar 2010 23:06:57 +0000

Adam, I see what you're saying (I think I've have the same conversation with Thom in the past), but I think, without being able to guarantee that everyone attend Maundy Thursday, Good Friday and Easter as well, the combination Liturgy is one of the best. I certainly think it gives us something distinct. I also like the juxtaposition because of the (at least in my analysis) theological truths it highlights... but then you probably already knew that since I mention it, at least in passing, almost every Palm Sunday! It's true that each element may get somewhat short-changed... but at least they're set in front of the largest number of congregants possible. It's sort of like taping our eyelids open :-p

Wayfaring Artist : The way it goes...

Wed, 24 Mar 2010 00:12:03 +0000

Poor wife. It always takes her 30 minutes to an hour longer to get to sleep than her husband. Sleep is my super-power. My recent post Throwing Jesus off a Cliff

FrJody.com : Fighting Pedantry with Pedantry

Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:22:31 +0000

This wouldn't have been the same person who was hypersensitive about language would it? Sounds like a similar personality...

Blog of Common Prayer : Daily Evening Prayer: Rite Two

Mon, 22 Feb 2010 00:16:01 +0000

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