JustAJoeK

JustAJoeK

29p

9 comments posted · 16 followers · following 0

15 years ago @ Atheist Revolution - Success of Atheist Com... · 0 replies · +1 points

I've recently used Turing as an example to bring home the real-world costs of bigotry to a couple of people (including my mother). Turing was a truly towering intellect, and it was society's attitude toward his homosexuality that led directly to his suicide. He developed the foundations of computer science before any electronic computers even existed (more or less), and he would certainly have moved the field forward rapidly once he had access to real machines, had he been alive to contribute. There can be no doubt that if he'd survived, the world would be quite different today. (Probably the machines would already have taken over, but I usually leave that point out of my argument :-)

15 years ago @ Atheist Revolution - Do You Wear Atheist T-... · 3 replies · +3 points

VJack, do you see many vehicles sporting both skeptical decorations AND damage from vandalism? If not, I would go ahead and invest in some stickers.

As far as the content of t-shirts and stickers, I think something a little subtle, such as the FSM or other skeptical "in jokes", might be a more comfortable starting point than the "There's probably no god" shirt. Those more-subtle decorations are likely to draw the attention of more thoughtful folks, maybe allowing you to engage in a dialog; whereas the more obvious and confrontational ones are more likely to draw the attention of good Christian god-fearing atheist-hating rednecks. :-p

As an aside, I live in far far west Texas, which is ever-so-slightly bluer than the rest of the state. I used to have a Ford Ranger whose tailgate was 100% covered with various skeptical, progressive, and sci-fi-related bumper stickers, including a couple of different Darwinfish. I never had a problem here, or when I lived in west Georgia (south of Atlanta) and drove the same truck with mostly the same stickers.

16 years ago @ Atheist Revolution - Helping Haiti: Non-Bel... · 0 replies · 0 points

Allow me to suggest that ideology should not play any part in one's choice of charity through which to donate. It should instead be based on practical considerations -- charities with lower overhead, and with long-term presence on the ground in Haiti, should be preferred. One good one on those criteria is Partners In Health, www.pih.org. They also happen not to be a religious organization, but that's just an added bonus. Founded by anthropologist and physician Paul Farmer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Farmer

16 years ago @ Atheist Revolution - What Atheists Could Le... · 0 replies · +2 points

Sorry if I over-shared :-/... I could've left that post at the first sentence, I suppose. Ah well, editing is a skill that takes years to learn.

16 years ago @ Atheist Revolution - What Atheists Could Le... · 2 replies · +1 points

I think one's "need" for ritual may largely be a product of upbringing.

Just an anecdote:

After moving across the country in 2000, I had no close friends for about 4 years. I also had no regular social engagements other than twice-weekly classes at a local martial arts studio; and I did not find that a particularly good environment to form friendships.

In autumn of 2004, my then-7yo daughter started talking a lot about god, and about wanting to go to church with her school friends. I told her, "That would be OK, but I think we'll also check out the local Unitarian Universalist church, just to get some balance." My reasoning was that the UU folks would give her an overview of lots of different belief systems, without trying to talk her into the God Given Truth of any of them. That was my only motivation for attending a UU service, so I was unprepared for what happened next.

The first Sunday we went, the congregation read the UU "Affirmation" in unison, as they always do: "Love is the doctrine of this congregation; the quest for truth is its sacrament; and service is its prayer." I almost burst into tears. This group recitation spoke to something in me that I didn't even recognize until that moment. I was raised Catholic, and had been exposed to church ritual from a very young age, but of course abandoned it all as meaningless and damaging when I was a teenager. This was a similar kind of thing -- except that it expressed what seemed to me wholly positive ideas. And I suddenly felt right at home there, among complete strangers, many of whom have since become close friends.

I am completely "out" as an atheist in the UU community, and have been wholeheartedly welcomed -- in fact I presented a "sermon" on atheism one Sunday this past September, and it was very well received (although not universally agreed with).

Incidentally, my expectations about the UU "Sunday school" program were right -- they spend time looking at all kinds of religious belief from a fairly objective standpoint, and probably even more time doing various social-justice activities. (They also consciously cultivate an atmosphere of mutual support and respect among the kids, which is very much at odds with what I see happening in the public school system.) My daughter now absolutely insists on going to church at UU every Sunday, and her closest friends are there. At age 12, she self-identifies as an atheist with pagan/naturist sympathies.

16 years ago @ Atheist Revolution - What Atheists Could Le... · 1 reply · +2 points

"That's why I think atheism is a very poor starting point for developing friendships, if that's all you have in common, how much can ever come from it? Much better to look for people with whom you do share a good deal of common ground and discover if their religious views are something you can both mutually deal with."

Two comments:

1) We in the US live in a culture positively soaked in Christian ideas and beliefs. Just knowing that someone is an atheist in this environment tells me that they almost certainly share some important things with me, such as a fundamentally thoughtful and evidence-oriented worldview, and an ability to swim against the cultural tide. Sure, it's possible we'll clash about any number of other things, but in this place and at this time, I find that a person's self-identifying as atheist is a fairly reliable indicator that they have other characteristics I will appreciate.

2) I've found it difficult to establish (or in a few cases, maintain) deep connections with my religious friends and acquaintances. If a person takes their faith very seriously, or has solid beliefs about woo-woo stuff like ghosts or UFOs, I feel that for politeness's sake I ought to avoid engaging them on that topic. (Also, I find that in many cases logical reasoning about such phenomena results in a torrent of anecdotes along with the challenge: "How do you explain THAT?" And I never know where to go at that point. I usually just say, "I don't know" and leave it at that.) Anyway my point is, having some large topic that's effectively off-limits puts a damper on forming deep connections, for me anyway.

So I personally tend to view a person's atheism as an encouraging indicator of general compatibility, in the absence of contra-indications.

16 years ago @ Atheist Revolution - Are Atheists Less Soci... · 0 replies · +2 points

"2.do i need a large circle of friends to be happy?
no... i dont, but i've learned from experience that its best to have many friends, however all of them may not be in my immediate circle of close friends though, but that doesnt mean they are not really good friends of mine"

I agree with this. And I'll add that it's nice to have a circulating circle of close friends. People can wear on each other after a while, and when that starts to happen they can drift apart. If you have a number of friends of different degrees of closeness, it can be OK for that drifting-apart to happen; and it's often accompanied by a drifting-together with an individual that you don't know so well. Brownian motion of relationships, or something.

It's just nice to be "known" for who you are. It can be hard, though, even to acknowledge that such "knowing" would be good, especially for people who answer "Yep, that's me!" to all three of those questions above. (As I would.)

16 years ago @ Atheist Revolution - Are Atheists Less Soci... · 0 replies · +1 points

For anyone who is suffering from lack of social connection after coming out as an atheist, I'd recommend checking out a nearby Unitarian Universalist church. They tend to be radically accepting and diverse. I had essentially no social life before joining my local UU, in a community that's over 70% Catholic. That local UU congregation is probably 40% atheist/agnostic. Now I literally have too much social interaction for my own comfort. Last Sunday I gave a "sermon" at the UU entitled "Atheist Spirituality", which was very well received.
(First line: "Hi. I'm Joe, and I'm a member of the evidence-based community.")

One might object that by implicitly approving the ideology of the non-extremist Christian element of the UU community, I am also abetting the larger pattern of Christians not criticizing Christian extremism due to religious fellow-feeling. However, it's been my experience that the kinds of Christians attracted to UU are also those who do not hesitate to criticize extreme religious behavior. There's also a good bit of "woo" in the UU community, but that's often fodder for interesting conversation and debate.

16 years ago @ Atheist Revolution - Are Atheists Less Soci... · 0 replies · +2 points

"The larger the gathering is, the more chance of someone bringing up the issue of religion or faith and then I would have to decide whether to also engage in that conversation or leave due to being ostracized."

Or just watch and listen. That's my strategy, usually. OTOH I don't really worry about being ostracized because of my beliefs. I'm unlikely to be friends with a person about whom I'd have that kind of concern, and I'm *really* unlikely to attend a gathering where I don't expect a few of my friends-who-know-my-views to be present. Then when other folks talk about god, I can roll my eyes at my buds.