en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/1046594 Comments by Height_of_right http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73862018 Sorry, but I AM a conservative and I DO watch Colbert -- he's funny. Even when I disagree with him (usually), I still see the humor (usually). And I know other conservatives -- reasonable, moderate, THINKING conservatives -- who watch him, too. What matters is how we vote and how we support conservative candidates, not whether we pass stupid cultural litmus tests to demonstrate that we're keeping ourselves sufficiently insulated from different points of view. In fact, this is EXACTLY what's wrong with the conservative movement today. Most conservatives want to just bury their heads in the sand and tune-out the critics and opposing points of view (even if it means passing up some damn good entertainment). I have news for you: If you want to do the movement some good (beyond just your votes and your $ political contributions) -- if you want to pick off some would-be Dems in your neighborhood, your office or your family and get them to vote with us next time around -- then you need to mix with them, listen to them directly (not simply believe everything you hear about them from the likes of Rush and Hannity, whose only real alleiance is to stirring up emotions, since that = ratings, which = $$$). You need to learn the ACTUAL weaknesses of their positions and the issues where they disagree with or worry about Obama and Pelosi or agree with Repub points. Like Michael Corleone once said, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." Bottom line: Ranting about every little thing you don't like about Obama or Dems within this conservative echo chamber is just a lot of mutual masturbation. Go out and get laid -- have the courage of your convictions, and go into Huffington Post or Politico or somewhere leftish or neutral and try to win converts. That's actually worth something. And learn to laugh at Colbert and even Stewart sometimes. Believe it or not, they both give it to Dems sometimes too (not often enough, clearly, but sometimes). I wish our "entertainers" could lighten up a little and learn to make fun of themselves and conservatives on occasion. Let's face it, these issues aren't always as black & white as they'd have us believe. Fri, 7 May 2010 19:20:08 +0000 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73862018 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73545015 Dawg, I think you just proved that Obama's policies didn't create the Tea Party movement, since he hadn't yet enacted anything as of January 23, 2009. It was Paulson -- Bush's Treasury Secretary -- who went into Congress with a stick up note demanding $750B within 72 hours "or else the economy gets it." Unfortunately, that act of grand larceny -- the single WORST part of the recent massive surge in govt spending -- was on President Bush. Bush insiders also have said that Bush knew that GM was going to HAVE TO BE bailed out, but he didn't want the blame so he punted. Thu, 6 May 2010 23:42:06 +0000 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73545015 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73543036 Is this really what we've stooped to? I've done battle on a lot of liberal sites and I have to tell you, they generally have more class and basic respect than what I'm seeing on this site. I don't even get all the vicious hatred toward Obama himself (hating his POLICIES -- yeah, that I get), so I'm even more mystified by all the personal animosity against the First Lady. Even as much as the liberals HATE GWBush, I rarely ever see anyone take disgusting shots like this at Laura Bush. Thu, 6 May 2010 23:35:17 +0000 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73543036 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73540757 Tea Partiers were openly referring to themselves as "Tea Baggers" for quite a while before the sexual innuendo attached to the term, so it's a little extreme to act as though this one remark from 6 months ago makes Obama "an abomination." And, even as a conservative, I'm a little uncomfortable accusing Obama of being uninformed on the issues (I guess that's what you're implying?) after I had to spend the last 8 years praying every day that President Bush wouldn't say something utterly ignorant. Thu, 6 May 2010 23:27:11 +0000 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73540757 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73538389 Obama is teaching fisting to 14 year olds? Sorry to be a skeptic, but can you show me a link or something? If that's true, I want a piece of that story! Thu, 6 May 2010 23:18:44 +0000 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73538389 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73537920 Actually, I believe we can call them muslim terrorists, but "islamic" is just more grammatically accurate, and "Islamic terrorist" is (appropriately) used all the time. Thu, 6 May 2010 23:17:17 +0000 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73537920 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73536387 Well put. I've been making the same point. This is a non-story. Let's not stoop to their level, otherwise we become just another version of the "political correctness police." Thu, 6 May 2010 23:11:15 +0000 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73536387 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73535234 Are you sure you don't just get overly emotional over whatever president is in office when you don't agree with his politics? It seems to me that our party has an inordinate number of people who boil over with personal hatred of ANY Democrat who occupies the Oval Office. I just don't see what Obama has done to warrant this kind of personal hatred. Hate his policies -- yeah, that I get! But the man, and how he comports himself as a person? No, not from what I've seen. Show me the evidence. One random "Tea Bagger" remark (possibly at a time when Tea Partyers were still calling themselves "Tea Baggers," before the sexual innuendo attached to it)? I'd need more before I could start to feel such personal distaste for him. Let's stick to SUBSTANCE in our critiques -- when we don't, it just makes us look petty and dumb. I'm sick of watching Stephen Colbert mock conservatives for being ruled by their "gut" and irrational passions. Some of us are actually focusing on facts, evidence and rational arguments. Thu, 6 May 2010 23:07:04 +0000 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73535234 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73531574 Seriously, because he used the term "Tea Bagger" (which the Tea Partyers themselves were using for quite a while, until the sexual innuendo attached to it)? What else are you talking about? I'm no fan of his policies, but I don't see what basis you have for such a severe indictment. What about Clinton -- that whole Lewinsky thing? Nixon? GWBush once said his job would be a lot easier if this were a dictatorship, "as long as I'm the dictator." So why does Obama make your blood pressure go off the charts? I just don't see the factual basis for this level of personal outrage against this president. They're all bad, and this president's policies may be the worst in a long time, but saying he has the least "decorum towards American citizens"? Seriously? This president allows protesters (some carrying crazy threatening signs) to also carry guns while picketing his events. President Bush routinely kept ALL protesters so far away from his speeches and events that the press could barely find them. I don't think Bush would ever have allowed protesters to come within a mile of his events while open-carrying (remember, the 2nd Am, like all Amendments, has legally recognized limits and exceptions, so the Secret Service can certainly ban weapons from a political rally outside of a Presidential event). Thu, 6 May 2010 22:53:29 +0000 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73531574 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73526417 Seriously, because he used the word "Tea Bagger"? Liberals were absolutely convinced that Bush literally stole the election that put him in office, and yet only the fringiest among them ever took the position you;re now taking. Do you really want to sink this low, this fast? People who say things like this make Kieth Olbermann look moderate. Plus, what's this "his choice, not mine" about? Because he used the term "Tea Bagger" to describe a group of people who hate him, you think he's choosing not to be your president? Forcryinoutloud, Pres Bush, Sarah Palin and half the conservative figures in American politics regularly mock the East Coast as if it's not part of the U.S., but I didn't take it as personally as you're taking this one remark. Thu, 6 May 2010 22:34:29 +0000 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73526417 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73523299 It's an ugly term, but the Tea Partyers themselves were using it for quite a while before it came to be considered derogatory. Apparently there's only this one instance of Obama using the term (this article cites the same source as Jake Tapper's post on this subject at ABC News) If Obama made the reference after the term had become a point of derision, then clearly it was wrong, but if it was before that... Also, all this talk of Obama's hypocrisy on civility seems a little over the top. Other than a single stray use of the term "tea bagger" (which, again, was not widely considered insulting until the little-known sexual term came to the public's attention and started causing snickers), what else has he done that has undermined civility? His policies may be out there on the left, but I don't see him doing or saying things that are deliberately devisive or purposefully antagonizing his opponents -- at last, nothing beyond what past presidents, including President Bush, did. Thu, 6 May 2010 22:23:31 +0000 http://biggovernment.com/johara/2010/05/05/the-president-gets-dirty/#IDComment73523299 http://biggovernment.com/takin/2010/05/05/putting-al-qaeda-ahead-of-the-cia/#IDComment73519286 Some interesting points, but there are some significant differences between this situation and the Valerie Plame situation. For one thing, presumably the "John Adams Project" (getting its name from the Founding Father who, as a lawyer, defended the British Red Coats in their criminal prosecution for the Boston Massacre) is doing this for what they believe to be a noble purpose in keeping with American values (affording defendants the right to face their accusers, which the Constitution guarantees). The Plame outing, on the other hand, was always widely understood to be vindictive political payback, which isn't noble or forgivable by anyone's standards. Second, the Plame investigation quickly revealed that there were some very high-ranking members of the Administration involved, not just some rogue lawyers working with an outside organization. But I do still totally support the investigation and severely punishing anyone involved if they broke any laws or attorney ethics rules, and I would hope it will be covered when that happens (which it will, at least on Fox, which is the most watched cable news network, so it's not like there could ever be an effective news blackout of it) Thu, 6 May 2010 22:09:55 +0000 http://biggovernment.com/takin/2010/05/05/putting-al-qaeda-ahead-of-the-cia/#IDComment73519286 http://biggovernment.com/amarcus/2010/05/06/president-tea-bagger-owes-grandma-an-apology/#IDComment73512348 In fairness, even the post-script to the ABC News article that calls out Obama for his "Tea-Bagger" jab points out that Tea Partyers themselves were the ones who coined the use of the term "Tea Bagger", so the outrage here seems a little disingenuous. It's possible that there are people using the term who don't mean it to literally refer to people who "take testicles into their mouths," as Mr. Marcus so graciously explains to us. And the title of the post seems a little sensationalistic too -- implying that Obama specifically called a little old lady ("Grandma") a "tea bagger" when he didn't. I mean, I understand the point of the post, but when we shade the truth and distort facts as badly as Kieth Olbermann, we do ourselves a disservice. Thu, 6 May 2010 21:47:08 +0000 http://biggovernment.com/amarcus/2010/05/06/president-tea-bagger-owes-grandma-an-apology/#IDComment73512348 http://biggovernment.com/sright/2010/05/05/audio-chicago-affiliate-wont-cover-gop-senate-candidate-if-he-continues-to-hammer-dem-opponent-on-bank-scandal/#IDComment73422048 Seriously, we need to exploit all the leverage we can to get back the Senate in November. In this case, push the media to stay out of the business of judging political content. On the other hand, in the controversy over Fox News decision not to run the VoteVets ad pushing for an energy/climate bill, we have to stand our ground and use that leverage too (even if based on the opposite arg we're making here). Whatever it takes. Thu, 6 May 2010 17:14:59 +0000 http://biggovernment.com/sright/2010/05/05/audio-chicago-affiliate-wont-cover-gop-senate-candidate-if-he-continues-to-hammer-dem-opponent-on-bank-scandal/#IDComment73422048