en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/393260 Comments by FMcGee http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/15/movie-trailer-the-hurt-locker/#IDComment18794470 This movie looks great! I'm excited for it, and it's great to see a female director succeeding! Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:41:40 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/15/movie-trailer-the-hurt-locker/#IDComment18794470 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18634474 Okay, I've probably typed this half a dozen times now, but I'm not letting it go. First, IT IS RAPE. According to the law it is rape. According to morality it is rape. Please see my previous posts on this, because I've laid this all out before, but the gist is this: according to the law and to the morals of any decent person, Brandi was too drunk to give consent. The fact that she muttered something drunkenly to imply that she was consenting (halfway through, not at the beginning, though that wouldn't matter anyway, given her state of inebriation) does not absolve Ronnie. She was WAY too wasted for that to have meant anything. She could have said, "I want some f'ing French toast" and it would have meant the same thing, which is nothing. As I have also said before, anyone who knows or studies the law, or who has empathy for raped women, or who has been raped, has no question that that is rape. It is rape. If Brandi hauled Ronnie to court with that scene on video, the judge would decide in her favor, anywhere in the US or Canada. Second, of course it's wrong to murder people. I'm not going to get into whether rape or murder is worse, because that's pointless, and those who have never been raped have a hard time, sometimes, understanding the ramifications of it. I'm NOT arguing that rape is worse than murder, but I will say that we all see murder as wrong. What he does in murdering people in that movie is heinous and awful. BUT, and here is the reason we keep talking about the rape scene: it is clear to EVERYONE that the murder is wrong. There is no need to discuss it in detail. People have accepted for centuries that murder is wrong. People have not come to this level of acceptance with rape. Rape is still legal in many places in the world (Karzai just legalized it in marriages in Afghanistan, for instance). One in four women in this country are raped in their lifetimes, and that is not because they are all attacked on the street. Most of them are date-raped (or raped by someone they know), and that's because there are people out there who don't see, or don't care, that what they're doing is raping someone. So, it doesn't matter whether murder or rape is the worse crime, because one is a crime we can all agree, universally, is wrong. The other is still up in the air for a lot of people. Clearly. That's why I'm not letting this go, and why I'm becoming grateful to this movie for getting this conversation going. The rape rate needs to go down, and talking about it like this is the only way that will happen. And if you need further evidence, listen to the Creative Screenwriting podcast interview with Hill, who also calls it rape. Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:12:19 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18634474 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18609697 I would agree with you that it's a waste of time to argue about the rape issue, except that Seth Rogen says, in an interview, that they thought it would be "okay" if they had her mumble drunkenly, "Did I tell you to stop, motherfucker?" That, Rogen said, would make it clear that this isn't rape. Except it IS rape. And furthermore, a lot of people out there DON'T think it was rape, because of that drunken mumble, so they're all on board with this idea that it's okay to have sex with someone who is wasted beyond reason if she happens to mutter something they'll take as consent at any point in the process. One in four women are raped in this country every year, and those aren't all street attacks. Date rape is extremely common, because people think things like this aren't rape. Of course, you're right that we shouldn't be using Rogen's character as a moral compass - the man is a lunatic. And of course I think people who think that what he did to Brandi is okay because they've done that themselves should be incarcerated. I also agree with you that Hill is ballsy. The only thing I disagree with is that the "whole rape argument is insane." I think it's incredibly necessary, because if it opens a few peoples' eyes about what rape means, hopefully they'll think about it. You know? Sun, 12 Apr 2009 12:05:12 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18609697 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18585674 Oh, it definitely counts as rape. Legally, she was too intoxicated to give consent. The law would decide in her favor. Further, he didn't get consent beforehand, so some drunken muttering wouldn't matter anyway. When someone is that drunk, she could say anything, that could be interpreted in any way. In this case, Rogen's character - and a lot of the audience - interpreted that as consent. Most people who understand how rape charges work, or have empathy for a raped woman, or who have been raped themselves, would see this as clear-cut rape. As would the law, as I said above. Sun, 12 Apr 2009 00:08:06 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18585674 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18558274 Right. There are movies about rapists out there, and making more of them makes sense. This movie isn't "about a rapist." It's trying to make rape funny, and it isn't funny. It's giving a justification for something that can't be justified. People will think, "oh, she's drunk haha she did it to herself," when in fact, 100% of the blame falls on the rapist's shoulders, every time. I'm entirely disgusted by this movie, and by the review in Time that further proves that people are seeing this scene as hilarious, and not an indictment. Sat, 11 Apr 2009 12:40:51 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18558274 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18558180 Good point. I'm thinking that it doesn't make it better. It's another way in which Rogen and company are spitting at peoples' problems in a way that isn't satirizing; they're just using them for comedic effect, like the date rape scene. Sat, 11 Apr 2009 12:36:11 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18558180 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18524038 Yeah, love how all the negative stereotypes he used were about women. Sat, 11 Apr 2009 00:36:32 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18524038 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18523771 I hear you. That line grossed me out too. Sat, 11 Apr 2009 00:34:50 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18523771 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18515544 Agreed. If you can't walk, and you're puking everywhere, you can't give meaningful consent. Mutterings from a drugged-out girl don't count. I'm with y'all - the date-rape scene ruins the movie (not that I was a fan overall). It's telling guys that kind of thing is okay, and it isn't. Also, right: she's not a slut for getting raped. But she's a slut because she's had sex before, and women who have sex are sluts, which means you can date rape them and note feel bad about it because once she's had sex with a man, she'll have sex with any man, and unconscious mutterings are good enough! Gross. Fri, 10 Apr 2009 22:52:22 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/10/hunter-stephensons-movie-review-observe-and-report-a-contender-for-best-film-of-2009/#IDComment18515544 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/06/where-the-wild-things-are-poster-2/#IDComment18272516 LOVE! Tue, 7 Apr 2009 00:38:54 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/06/where-the-wild-things-are-poster-2/#IDComment18272516 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/01/two-new-posters-amuse-and-impress-the-girlfriend-experience-and-the-graves/#IDComment18012360 Agreed, the Girlfriend Experience poster is really cool, and you can see how it would relate to the themes of the movie. The Graves poster isn't BAD, it's just boring. We've all seen dozens of other similar posters. I like the color scheme, but it's kind of bland overall. Thu, 2 Apr 2009 12:12:32 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/01/two-new-posters-amuse-and-impress-the-girlfriend-experience-and-the-graves/#IDComment18012360 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17954622 Right. Which is why, in this case, I'm only talking about the poster, and what it brings to mind. I have now read the synopsis and understand why she is being dragged to hell, so yay, but this was JUST about the poster and what it calls to mind. And thanks for being willing to discuss this without being nasty about it. :) Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:43:27 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17954622 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17940005 No, I get that. I'm just saying that it LOOKS like a typical horror movie trope. And that's clearly a pretty sexualized image, so that's where the idea came from. I'm looking forward to seeing the movie, especially given that people who have seen it are saying such good things about it. I don't think I initially articulated my ideas clearly. I do think this is a sexualized image that never would be made if it were a man - no surprises there - and that it is a typical horror movie plot to kill off the girl who has sex first, or in the most evil way, even in the movies where everyone dies. So those two things added up in my head and I had a thought, is all. I'm glad to hear the movie is fantastic! Wed, 1 Apr 2009 01:06:52 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17940005 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17938103 Wow. Misandry? My kind? Smack a bitch? And I'm the one with the problem here? Wed, 1 Apr 2009 00:07:52 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17938103 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17937085 I'm not arguing that Sam Raimi isn't awesome. I'm just saying there's more than one way to look at things. I suppose detracting opinions aren't welcome, but it never occurred to me that a different perspective that isn't attacking any of you personally, or Sam Raimi, but just to say that there are other ways of considering movie posters, would get such hostile reactions. It isn't bullshit, though, I'll say that much. It's a difference of opinion. It's not like I'm here calling for a boycott of the movie - I'll probably see it! Yeesh. Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:38:12 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17937085 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17919454 I guess I don't think misogyny is funny. Now I'm going to look like a humorless harpy, but I'm also not going to be all "Oops, better fit into the boys' club and laugh at a very real problem women face in their day to day lives lest it appears I care about a horror movie's depiction of women!" It isn't the movie itself, it's the attitude it draws out. That poster would never have been made with a man instead of a woman, is my point. Go ahead, picture it, and then see if you'd imagine the same kinds of comments you're seeing here. Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:04:50 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17919454 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17913628 Case in point. Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:56:56 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17913628 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17910623 That's good to know, about the script, because from the poster, it looks like yet another woman being punished in yet another horror movie for daring to have a sex life. See also: all horror movies in which the slut is the first to go and/or the most tortured on the way to her death. In other words, almost all horror movies. I'll have to see it, I guess, but between the poster and the descriptions I've read, I remain skeptical. Women have so hard a time finding roles that are truly anti-sexist that it seems like sometimes we settle for "just a little bit sexist." Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:40:25 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17910623 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17903941 Ew. That's a pretty misogynistic poster. Tue, 31 Mar 2009 09:43:43 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/31/sam-raimis-drag-me-to-hell-poster/#IDComment17903941 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/26/24-co-creator-the-kennedys/#IDComment17695537 You're right about the assassination. I didn't intentionally omit it, and I do think it's part of the Camelot Myth. I do think you mischaracterize a lot of liberals, and liberals often mischaracterize conservatives in the same way. I do have strong opinions on things like abortion and gay rights that I'm not willing to compromise on, but that doesn't mean I'm uninterested in what other people have to say about those issues. Quite the opposite. The problem is often selection bias. If you're getting your information on what conservatives or liberals are like from internet comments, you're getting a lot of people who are being outspoken and volatile in a way they aren't in their day to day lives. It means there are no productive conversations about things, and people on both sides want to be right so badly that they'll often twist their facts, if unwittingly. It's also a lot easier to say something nasty about another person or another point of view on the internet. It sucks because it just makes people upset without making them think. You know? Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:42:20 +0000 http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/03/26/24-co-creator-the-kennedys/#IDComment17695537