gdp's Comments

Touchpoint : Animism, America, Religion and Politics

Sun, 6 Nov 2011 16:06:00 +0000

The post certainly reflects my religious and political views. However, there is a significant difference between the theocracy of the OT and socialism - i.e. God. Your argument that infrastructure is socialistic is way off. Socialism is the redistribution of wealth, often against one's will and with no benefit to the person whose wealth is taken. Supporting infrastructure is an integral part of government of all stripes and is about the fair payment for goods and services that make community work. Education and healthcare are certainly a part of this equation if minimum standards for everyone are established and provided, but allows for those who have the means to strive for more (if they want). You equate taxation with socialism. This can be true in some systems, but certainly not all. Monarchies tax. Dictatorships tax. Republics tax. Democracies tax. Interestingly enough, extreme socialistic systems don't tax because the government owns everything and keeps the profit for themselves while forcing the people to live at often substandard levels of housing, income, healthcare, infrastructure, and quality of life. The real issue here is about doing what's right in God's sight for those who cannot take care of themselves. One of the functions of government should be to protect the weak members of society. This is quite different than coddling the lazy members of society or saying that every member of society should be paid the same regardless of capacity, training, excellence and hard work. There are differing values for the way in which individuals support society. Not everyone has the capacity or is willing to work hard enough to become a physician, scientist, engineer, business owner and etc. In a society that has the Creator God as a significant part of it's worldview, everyone should be given the opportunity to develop to his or her capacity. This is for the good of the society. This is not socialism, which tends to bring everything to a common minimum. It seems to me that most socialistic systems want to make sure everyone reaches the same level of incompetence so that the elite in charge can keep what they have. The socialistic worldview is based on the view that there is limited stuff that must be kept and protected, and just enough is given out to keep people happy while the elite can enjoy their wealth of stuff. OT law allowed for those with capacity to excel and rise up in society. But it also recognized that power would supplant ability, so every fifty years the table was reset (Year of Jubilee) to make sure that power was not the basis for society, but that capacity and hard work were the basis for society. You will note that the value of everything was measured by the time remaining to Jubilee. Jubilee is not a system that can be made to work in modern society. But we can make sure that every person has access to quality education and opportunity to excel. Quite frankly, this seems to no longer be the case in America. When I attended university my tuition, books and fees were less than $250 per semester. A month's work in the summer covered all my educational costs for a year. Today, university education starts at about $250 per semester hour, or about $4,000 per semester including books and fees. At $10 per hour one has to work 800 hours, or about 5 months full time to pay for one year of university. In other words, the average person cannot go to university and survive without loans or support in some form. The system has developed into one that only the elite can have easy access. This is a table that needs to be reset. Power and wealth should not be the determining factor for getting an education if one has capacity for learning and giving back to society. A Creative worldview society would make sure that everyone has access to education at a fair price. This resets the table every generation, allowing society to continue to develop, improve, and create. Power and influence will always be a part of the fallen world. But we can put in systems that attenuate this power. This is too big a topic for a complete review. This article is about worldviews - Creative or Animistic; and the impact these worldviews have on society. Blessings! David Watson

Touchpoint : Animism, America, Religion and Politics

Wed, 2 Nov 2011 19:03:40 +0000

I don't know the ratio, either. But if our church stats are correct, more than 75% of the people who profess to be Christians never enter a church of any kind. I can't speak to their service/ministry to others, but my gut tells me it's close to zero. Our love language for God is obedience to His Word and service to His creation.

Touchpoint : Animism, America, Religion and Politics

Wed, 2 Nov 2011 13:43:03 +0000

Thanks, Jeffrey. Good input. When our children are immersed most of the day in Animistic Worldview, if there is not a conscious imparting of the Creative Worldview on a day to day basis in such a way that decision is required, then the likelihood of adopting an Animistic Worldview increases dramatically. We must be living out our faith consistently at home and in the world, and we must be teaching/training our children to be critical thinkers. To allow ourselves or our children to mindlessly accept or ignore what is being said or portrayed through all forms of media is courting disaster for our families and our society.

Touchpoint : Mentoring – Dealing with Conflict or How to Have a Fair Fight

Sat, 17 Sep 2011 21:57:11 +0000

Does anyone out there have a citation for this quote. Blessings! David Watson Irving, TX

Touchpoint : Opinion - Insider Movements

Mon, 8 Aug 2011 18:54:23 +0000

Speaking of judgments - it seems you have not read the article. I am the sole author and am responsible for the content of this article. I was criticizing two very limited aspects of some insider movements which redact Scripture and subjugate Scripture to any culture. By your own words you say you don't do these two things. So, help me understand how pointing a light on methods that do not take every letter of the Bible seriously is being judgmental. Peer review and correction is a very important part of Christian heritage and is Scriptural. I have no quarrel with those who take every letter of the Bible seriously, but I will point out the error of changing Scripture or redacting Scripture in order to make Scripture culturally acceptable, regardless of what culture one is trying to reach. Blessings! David Watson

Touchpoint : Church Planting Essentials – Personal Accountability Relationships

Sun, 7 Aug 2011 17:15:17 +0000

Glad it was helpful. Blessings! David Watson

Touchpoint : Church Planting Movement (CPM) – Our Definition

Thu, 28 Jul 2011 19:12:23 +0000

Hi, Ilona. You sentiment sounds good, but does not reflect Scripture. God has commanded us to count. Jesus counted and held people accountable. The issue is if counting is the focus or a measure. If I look at a ruler all day long I can't accomplish much. But if I use it to measure materials and adherence to plans, then something beneficial will come of it. Human nature is to sink the lowest level of accountability. A major problem with the church is that most of us are not held accountable to even make one disciple a year, much less develop systems to reach whole people groups, cities or nations. i will continue to plan and continue to count, because it is the only way I can see if I am making a dent on the lostness of the world and being obedient to make disciples of all nations. Counting is only a problem when it becomes one's focus instead of one's measuring stick. Blessings! David Watson

Touchpoint : Church Planting Movement (CPM) – Our Definition

Thu, 28 Jul 2011 19:02:27 +0000

G12 has certainly had an impact on many lives. My experience is that there are not many who can carry the weight G12 demands. But there are millions who can disciple 1 or 2 people. It's about designing a system that works with 1 or 1000. The CPM we practice is very scaleable. With individuals who can lead one, we coach them to lead one. With those who grow to lead thousands, we coach them to lead thousands. The capacity of the leader is the determining factor within the counsel of Word and leadership of the Holy Spirit. Process is always the same, but leadership issues are addressed at the leaders' capacities. Blessings! David Watson

Touchpoint : Opinion - Insider Movements

Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:56:22 +0000

Hi, Rares. There are certainly many movements that do exactly what you expressed. My article was dealing with an extreme that is currently growing. In all our work we try very hard to present the gospel and ask insiders how they will obey it. By "present" I mean let them read it without commentary from outsiders. As they become believers we add in church history, theology, and more. But it continues to be the insiders' jobs to determine what practice will look like in obedience to the whole counsel of the Word. The gage is not traditional Western Christianity, but obedience to the Word. Blessings! David Watson

Touchpoint : Opinion - Insider Movements

Sun, 8 May 2011 19:38:40 +0000

Hi, Garrit. Perhaps you mean "indigenation"? I have not rushed to my conclusions. I have been dealing with this issue for more than 25 years, and this is the first time I have taken a stand against Insider Movements of any stripe when Insider Movements includes outsiders teaching insiders how to be insiders. When outsiders are teaching insiders how to worship as insiders, something is amiss. When people are redacting the Word of God to please/appease culture, something is amiss. When seekers and new Believers are being told that they can ignore parts of Scripture, something is amiss. When it is alright to be disobedient to the Word of God to avoid offending a culture, something is amiss. This is true whether one is in Miami or Medina, Malibu or Mumbai, Dallas or Dakar, Franklin or Frankfurt…. The methods we use encourage insiders to read the Bible and determine for themselves what they must do to be obedient. Practice is not taught. We simply ask, "In your context what must you do to be obedient to Scripture?" We don't teach people to pray, we ask, "In obedience to this passage, how will you pray?" We don't teach how to worship, we ask, "How will you obey the Scripture in regard to worship?" We don’t teach baptism, we ask, “How will you be obedient to the baptismal passages?” We teach obedience to the Word of God. The local group determines how they will be obedient. This means that obedience often looks just like what the culture will need and respect. We teach our outside leaders to deculturalize their presentation of Scripture to avoid transmitting their home culture, and ask the inside leaders to find ways to be culturally obedient. But there are times when obedience to the Word cannot be cultural, no matter what. In these cases Scripture must trump culture. There are simply times when Believers must give up cultural practices in order to be obedient. Note Paul’s writings when he encourages new Believers to abandon sinful practices. Blessings! David Watson Irving, Texas

Touchpoint : Opinion - Insider Movements

Wed, 27 Apr 2011 02:44:27 +0000

The outsiders' job is to deculturalize the Gospel - to give the Gospel without traditional Christian forms attached. The insiders' job is to cuturalize the Gospel - to determine how to obey all the commands of Christ in their own cultural context. This means that cultural expressions of form may look different, but the new forms were developed by insiders, not outsiders teaching insiders what to do. "How will you obey?" is a powerful question. A question that, if it were asked by modern Christians, would change much of what we do at home and around the world. It would take us from apparent cultural insignificance to a relevance that would transform individuals, families, communities, and nations.

Touchpoint : Opinion - Insider Movements

Sun, 17 Apr 2011 08:51:34 +0000

The quick answer is, "No, we do not have to extract people from their culture in order for them to follow Jesus." There are hundreds of thousands of MBBs who live in their culture and follow Jesus. In our ministry we simply ask them to read the Scripture; say the Scripture in their own words (so we know they understand it); and ask them how, in their context, they will obey the Scripture. We don't teach them how to pray, we ask them how they will pray. We don't teach them how to worship, we ask them how they will worship. Obedience to Scripture forces us to stop some cultural activities, and do some activities that may be out-of-culture, but this is true for all cultures. The primary objections we see are when outsiders insist on how to do things rather than asking how they will obey Scripture and what they are going to do in obedience to Scripture.

One of my objections to Insider Movements is that outsiders are usually telling the insiders what to do to be insiders instead of asking the insiders how they will obey Scripture in their context. And in worse-case settings, outsiders are softening/changing Scripture to lower the Biblical demands for salvation/faith/belief/obedience. This establishes a church that is crippled from the beginning, and unable to be all that God has called the church to be.

Blessings!

David Watson
From Thailand

Touchpoint : Church Planting Essentials - Urban Church Planting

Sat, 22 Jan 2011 06:11:19 +0000

I'm not sure it matters where the modern focus or emphasis on the worship service came from. The reality is that it is the focus of most modern Christian expressions. The "assembly", as you use it, is expressed in a variety of ways - cell church, Sunday school, small groups, adult Bible studies, organic church, simple church, and more. When we assess church, we need to look at biblical functions beyond assembly or worship. The church gathered as well as the church scattered in the family, market place, school, and more should make up the reality of all churches. It should be vastly more complex than any single meeting or gathering. When we focus on any one function of church we will miss the full impact the church can have in all areas of society. My personal deepest concern for the modern church is that is has become like a cinema or theater - we gather, pay our fees, watch the show, and depart without truly interacting with one another or our communities. When the church becomes recreational it loses its impact on the world.

Blessings!

David Watson
Irving, Texas

Touchpoint : Guest Post - Discovery and the Inductive Approach

Tue, 18 Jan 2011 18:31:01 +0000

The simple inductive process we use is a group process. This process is limited in didactic materials such as this post. You can learn more about our process at http://www.davidlwatson.org/2010/10/11/guest-post... and
http://www.davidlwatson.org/2007/12/18/church-pla....

Touchpoint : Guest Post - Discovery and the Inductive Approach

Thu, 18 Nov 2010 15:28:42 +0000

Hi, Jason. This is a good question. Our initial Discovery Bible Studies are guided, that is, we choose the studies that a new group is exposed to. These initial Bible Studies are chosen for simplicity and clarity, and are widely accepted as central in Chistian Biblical Theology. The Simple Truth Simply Obeyed is central in this process. More complex issues come as people mature. I am constantly impressed with how quickly these new Believers mature and are able to discern truth. Blessings! David Watson

Touchpoint : Guest Post - Discovery and the Inductive Approach

Wed, 10 Nov 2010 15:44:23 +0000

Hi, Norm. There is a CP Coach involved in all our groups who understands the role of Scripture and the presence of the Holy Spirit in the process. These coaches are highly trained and stay on the sidelines during meetings so that local leadership can immerge and develop. This coaching relationship can last up to 4 years. There really is no blind leading the blind involved in this process. Also, to assume that a Christian Background individual in the room is not blind or does not see dimly is a big stretch in much of the Christianized world. Let\\\'s begin at the beginning - Simple Truth, Simply Obeyed in a community process that holds individuals accountable. As maturity develops out of obedience, insight grows and local expressions of doctrine immerge. This leads to transformation of a community by the Gospel through the power of the Holy Spirit. Blessings! David Watson

Touchpoint : Church Planting Essentials - Urban Church Planting

Fri, 29 Oct 2010 13:04:24 +0000

Church is hard to define, but when we see or experience genuine church, we know it. Blessings! David Watson From South Africa

Touchpoint : Opinion – Contextualization, Personal Evangelism and Disciple Making

Fri, 17 Sep 2010 16:38:21 +0000

By your definition a convert then is not a believer, but simply one who has started the path and must be discipled into obedience, which defines belief and discipleship. I don\\\'t see how this is helpful. The one time Jesus used the term \\\"convert\\\" is was negative and the covert would become a \\\"son of hell\\\", and the ones who made the convert where \\\"sons of hell.\\\" See Matthew 23. Too many assumptions and doctrinal baggage in your argument to deal with them all in this context. Like, how can a non-believer become a disciple in a context where there are no believers or only people who call themselves Christian, but are not obedient lovers of Jesus? The Word is the example, and obedience to the Word addresses context. Live Disciples are certainly helpful, if they are obedient and live out their obedience in the context of their culture, redeeming that which is not of God and keeping that which is neutral or pleasing to God. Blessings! David Watson San Jose, CA

Touchpoint : Leadership Essentials – Contextualization Is Not What You Think It Is

Sat, 4 Sep 2010 14:36:46 +0000

We present the Gospel in an acultural way on a regular basis around the world. It requires one to move from a teaching/presentation role to a coaching role that points people to the Bible and asks them to explain the passage in their own words and then to made decisions based on what they discover. Most people approach those who don't know Christ with a lot of answers. We approach those who don't know Christ with a lot of questions. The questions guide the discovery and the discussion, thus providing a good barrier to cultural overhang. The great thing about this process is that those who come to Christ through it are immediately able to lead others through the process with no further training. We have spontaneous replication in all our work. See Small Groups that have the DNA of a Gospel Planting Movement for a complete discussion of the process. http://www.reachingtheonlinegeneration.com/2010/0... Blessings! David Watson Irving, Texas

Touchpoint : Leadership Essentials – Contextualization Is Not What You Think It Is

Sat, 4 Sep 2010 13:34:04 +0000

This is not an uncommon event. Either Christian Background Believers introduce practices, or outsiders join in to "correct" practices. Either can be very disturbing and cause DNA problems that make it more difficult for the church to reproduce. Obedience-based discipleship, well trained leadership, strong evaluation of all new practices, and high accountability can help attenuate the adoption of outside practices that may jeopardize growth in a specific context. But ultimately, the church decides and outsiders have to honor the choices of the church as long as they are not heretical. But even if practices are not heretical, they can become a serious barrier to the future development of the church because of foreign practices that put off locals.

Blessings!

David Watson
Irving, Texas