en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/758583 Comments by DanLando1 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/south-park-off-the-hook__trashed/#IDComment71347157 I think this situation would be a lot less of a big deal if people understood that shows like South Park, Family Guy and the Simpsons do this kind of thing all the time. The fact is, they make fun of EVERYTHING. Family Guy in particular makes fun of every religion, political party, and famous celebrity. In particular, Family Guy has had whole episodes making fun of both Judaism and Christianity. If people keep that in the back of their minds when watching episodes like the Muhammad one on South Park, there would not be this hysteria. Personally I can be a sensitive person, but I love Family Guy (I haven't watched much South Park) and appreciate 98% of their jokes. Thu, 29 Apr 2010 18:40:58 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/south-park-off-the-hook__trashed/#IDComment71347157 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-health-care__trashed/#IDComment71346561 I think our health care plan as it is right now should be offered to all Americans who pay taxes and who are legally in this country. Illegal immigrants should not benefit from the hard work of Congressmen and Senators who worked for years to bring a plan like this to America. I understand that a lot of illegal immigrants work extremely hard and live their daily lives "the right way", but not paying all the taxes that naturalized American citizens do really cheapen this health care plan. The Americans who struggle to pay all their taxes and cannot afford privatized health care should be rewarded. Thu, 29 Apr 2010 18:36:41 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-health-care__trashed/#IDComment71346561 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-people-who-can-only-afford-hard-work__trashed/#IDComment71345853 I think that hard work should always be rewarded in generally, and especially when it comes to immigrants. However, we discussed in class that in the early 1900s and late 1800s, when immigrants were coming to this country in droves (and coming in legally), they had literally nothing in terms of money or clothes or other possessions. Now, when money is worth more and is more available, immigrants should be doing things the same way as long ago. I may be a cynic, but I doubt people will be entering this country illegally just because they do not have the money. More likely they do so because it is convenient and much more simple than doing it the "right way." If people are willing to work hard, they should also be willing to put in the extra time to come into the country legally. The only people who get punished by this not happening are the legitimate American citizens. I would like to believe that hard work is all people need to succeed and be happy, but that is just not the case in today's world. This whole argument about illegal immigrants taking jobs that Americans don't want versus illegal immigrants taking jobs away from "hardworking Americans" is a little tiresome for me to have to listen to. I don't necessarily believe that either side is true all the time. Lots of times I think the former is true, that immigrants take jobs that most Americans don't want, (or, as Sam talked about Tuesday in class, that they aren't legally allowed to take) but also there are those extremely destitute Americans who can only take jobs where they scramble to make ends meet. In most cases, these people, just like the immigrants in the video we saw, can't make ends meet. The belief that we as Americans are brought up with is that we can do anything we set our minds to, and with hard work, we can achieve anything. Unfortunately I think that is much more true for us as naturalized citizens than it is for immigrants, illegal or legal. This basically says that despite how a immigrant enters the country, the "right way" or the "wrong way", it won't matter because Americans have the upper-hand. While I would prefer immigrants to enter the country in a legal way, as long they are prepared to work honestly and hard, they should be given all the chances of naturalized citizens here. The way our immigration issues are progressing, I think incentives will be increased to legal immigrants who enter the country the proper way, and this will also increase the number of hardworking immigrants in this country. While I disagree with the use of incentives or "hooks" to get people to do things (rather than having motivation to do things because they are right), I understand why incentives are used Thu, 29 Apr 2010 18:31:40 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-people-who-can-only-afford-hard-work__trashed/#IDComment71345853 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/were-being-educated-for-stupidity-and-conformity-really__trashed/#IDComment69787011 This is rather unsettling and upsetting to hear, given that my father is a professor of Education here at Penn State, and he greatly cares about and is passionate about both his students and his teaching methods. He definitely is not a sheep and encourages people not to be robots. I should also point out that his classes are not lecture-based or "boring"; he is more a hands-on kind of teacher who likes to see his students in action. I've heard Chomsky's thoughts before and I understand where he's coming from, but growing up in the environment I have, I was taught to open my mind and be open to thinking in different ways. In this sense I don't think I completely fall into the trap of thinking like a sheep. Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:42:34 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/were-being-educated-for-stupidity-and-conformity-really__trashed/#IDComment69787011 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/how-am-i-not-a-racist__trashed/#IDComment69786441 First of all, I love your premise about it not having anything to do with anything. That said, I believe that you are correct in that you feel better equipped to change the world than someone in a third-world country. However, I think the reason is not in your control (your skin color and place of birth), so for someone to take that thought to assume that they are better than other people would be ridiculous. Unfortunately, I understand that there are idiots out there who believe in their racial superiority, or believe that since they live in a country such as the United States, that they are entitled to walk around with a chip on their shoulder. Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:38:00 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/how-am-i-not-a-racist__trashed/#IDComment69786441 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/300000-whats-it-mean-to-us__trashed/#IDComment69785687 I definitely don't think people are saying "Oh, 300,000 people are dead. Oh no. How sad. OK, now where was I?" There is definite sadness out there in the world for people who are affected by tragic events such as Haiti, Hurricane Katrina, the plane crash in Poland, and 9/11. My belief is if you don't feel some kind of sadness or other strong emotion, perhaps like anger at the world for causing disasters like this, then you are not truly human. Sam made a similar statement in class the other day, and it definitely resonated with me. So I htink that there is definitely sadness initially. This woman is correct however, that while initially we are sad and eager to donate money and time to help, gradually over time our amount of caring starts to wane and soon, as Sam talked about with the non-profit groups that just bring items rather than secure jobs for the Haitians, the people affected by the disaster may be worse off than before. This could definitely be true with Haiti, however it seems as though the relief efforts are still going strong, which is a welcome sight to see. I can see the above poster's point that the proximity of the event to you, both geographically and in terms of friends or family involved, is an indication about how much you might continue to care about the effects of the disaster. With 9/11, the events sparked a war that is still going on today. Also, the kind of event it is also can impact the reaction of people. With 9/11, it was a man-made disaster, while with Hurricane Katrina, it was an earthly event. In that sense, people might have "done their part" for a while, but since they weren't as fired up emotionally about the initial damage or the aftermath, the concern began to dissipate. Events like 9/11 that are caused by our fellow humans tend to stir up more potent emotions for us, such as anger for the offenders, and of course, sadness and pity for those affected. This leads to more people willing to help with recovery efforts. Also, I may pose a thought that it is possible that many people just gave money or offered to help with Haiti simply because it was the "trendy thing to do." I know that sounds rather cynical, but I feel as though that would cover the motivations of a few people. My hope is that it only covers a few people, and that most people, like myself, are motivated to help because they want to help their fellow man, and, as Sam mentioned in class, follow the Golden Rule of doing unto others as you would want others to do to you. Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:31:55 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/300000-whats-it-mean-to-us__trashed/#IDComment69785687 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-are-we-doing-here-really__trashed/#IDComment68259244 I think the end goal of this particular class is just to get us to think more critically about the world and the inner workings of our particular society, so that we can come to terms with our personal biases and prejudices and work them out. As far as beyond this class, I think we should take what we have learned here and try and engage in intelligent, probing discussions with friends, and even strangers, about race relations and inequality. Otherwise, the discussions won't happen, and we can't have true equality, or have people treating each other with respect and dignity regardless of SES or other variable. Thu, 15 Apr 2010 19:09:28 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-are-we-doing-here-really__trashed/#IDComment68259244 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/want-to-learn-chinese__trashed/#IDComment68258626 I feel as though I have an interesting perspective on this, having learned a smattering of both Mandarin and Cantonese for the role of "Ching Ho" in Thoroughly Modern Millie last summer. Neither of those are actually too difficult to get a handle on, provided you put in ample time to learn them and work with them. Chinese is definitely not one of the languages I think of when thinking about languages taught at a high school level, so I think teaching them in a high school is a terrific idea. I would definitely agree that Mandarin and Spanish will eventually be the most popular languages of the business world. Thu, 15 Apr 2010 19:04:09 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/want-to-learn-chinese__trashed/#IDComment68258626 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-the-men__trashed/#IDComment68257882 I think that most guys feel like they need to fit in, at least a little bit, however for the most part I don't think we feel quite the same pressure as women. This is rather unfortunate and makes me rather angry-not that I wish men like myself felt more pressure, but that women face an unbelievable amount of scrutiny in their daily lives. I was discussing after class with a female friend of mine how angry it made me to hear the people in class talking about dressing for guys, and feeling like they have to look good for men (or whoever they want to look good for). I certainly don't dress like a slob every day, but I also don't spend 10 minutes picking out my outfit. It's the same way with makeup for women, If women really do wear makeup only because they think they really need it, then that is ridiculous. Women shouldn't feel like they have to cover up their natural selves to look "ideal" or what they feel like is pretty. This is something that I particularly feel passionate about. That said, some women I know wear makeup because its fun or because they like to, and not because they feel they have to-I have absolutely no problem with that. The one thing I do feel pressure about as a man is having a six-pack and sometimes also the fact I wear glasses. If you've seen me, its pretty obvious I don't have anything close to chiseled abs. That is pretty much the only thing I feel insecure about, and the thing I feel like is emphasized most by the media or more powerful men in the public view as being essential for the ideal man. In general, guys are expected to be strong, into sports, and in control of their emotions without showing them too often. For instance, I love sports a lot, but am also very involved in music here at Penn State, so I am sometimes seen as not an ideal man. I also enjoy musical theatre, which is seen as more of a feminine trait. The picture of an ideal man in society doesn't allow for a man who loves sports, music, and musical theatre, so I am not exactly overly desired. Watching the videos and reading the stories you hear about women doing crazy things to fit in proves that women have more pressure to fit into whatever society deems as the ideal woman; however men clearly go through similar pressures and that fact should not be forgotten. The one thing I will say is I don't think guys compare themselves to other guys nearly as often as girls do, but they do it occasionally. As long as the guy gets a girl, it doesn't matter as much to him how good the other guys look. Thu, 15 Apr 2010 18:58:36 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/what-about-the-men__trashed/#IDComment68257882 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/i-really-want-to-know-also__trashed/#IDComment66671572 This is definitely an interesting question. I think what Sam first said on the first day of class, and what he has repeated several times, is his mission in teaching this class is to make his students think. Not thinking differently, or think a certain way, but just to think about the world. I mentioned to him today after class that I really appreciated his passion while he's "lecturing". It's clear that he really cares about what he's discussing with us, and the least we can do is pay attention. On a personal note, as I told Sam today, after every class, I feel very conflicted in my thinking. This probably isn't what Sam is going for, since I don't really change my thinking since I'm so conflicted and confused about my current thinking, but it is at least a step in the right direction. The point is that, at least with me, Sam is definitely making a difference in how I think about the world. At the very least, I remember what he has told us when I see certain things for sale or when I hear white people talking a certain way about another ethnic group. It sounds like people who don't come to class with an open mind are not going to get anything out of the class. That is really a shame because I think this is a terrific class (and I signed up for the class because I heard about Sam's reputation), and I will definitely recommend it to many of my friends. I wonder if the guy asking this question has really learned nothing, or possibly he is afraid of ashamed to admit that he has really opened his mind to issues he had previously felt very strongly about. For example, the only "controversial" issue that I feel strongly about is LGBT rights. This class strengthened my beliefs and even offered ammunition for me to use against those bigots that have no true backing for their beliefs and just believe blindly. Those are the people that really need to come to this class and open their eyes, because I am at least willing to listen to opposing viewpoints before I offer counter arguments. It sounds like this guy needs to take a breath, and then open his eyes at least a little to what Sam is saying, because he knows what he's talking about. As Sam has said, he's seen a lot of these problems at work in front of him, so he rightly feels strongly about them. What I take away from that is, given the way Sam describes these issues with stories, pictures, and videos, how can you not feel something about them? If you don't feel anything, if you're truly apathetic, I would argue that you are at least partly not human. Thu, 8 Apr 2010 23:03:22 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/04/i-really-want-to-know-also__trashed/#IDComment66671572 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/flip-the-script-for-a-moment__trashed/#IDComment65342918 I'm glad you're encouraging Sam to keep questioning. You're exactly right-if he isn't gonna question, who else will? Too often, I am afraid of doing something wrong, or something weird. In fact, my issue is that I care WAY too much about what people think. This class is actually helping me to start to change that, because I am changing a little about my views about the world, and my philosophy about how the world works (however difficult and unsettling this change is). Also, your point about a societal norm is excellent. Since the rulers of the society, whatever we determine that to be, decide the societal norms are, how many of us would then be justified not to follow them since we are not of the "ruling majority"? Thu, 1 Apr 2010 22:54:18 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/flip-the-script-for-a-moment__trashed/#IDComment65342918 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment65341563 You're exactly right in your thoughts. I felt horrible (as quite honestly, I often do in class about various issues) because as part of the majority (a white man), I am indirectly responsible for perpetuating this untrue ideal. We need to try and re-educate kids as early as possible that they are beautiful and worthwhile in their own skin, and they should never aspire to be someone else, no matter the skin tone. (This is difficult given the balance of images shown in the media). Quite simple, we need to make a change in the media right now before this gets any worse (if it ever could). Thu, 1 Apr 2010 22:49:59 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment65341563 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment65340382 When I watched this video, I was saddened by the results of the study that was done. Personally, I believe that if I were placed with the choice between the two dolls, I would have picked the black doll. While this is indeed my personal preference, I also feel like I have ulterior motive for choosing the black doll. That would be simply to prove that white people aren't always the most ideal. Again, I must emphasize that my personal preference would be to pick the black doll anyway. I actually had a conversation with a friend in the class about why white women are seen as more desirable or ideal. That has not been the case in my family in terms of relationships, as both my brother and I have dated non-white women (my brother dated two Indian women for 18 months or more). While that seems like a trivial or insensitive example, it got me thinking about why white women are seen as more attractive or ideal in society. I actually mentioned to my friend that, while I am a straight white man, I think in general that black men seem to be more desirable than white men, and black men have the capacity to be more attractive than white men. Obviously, history has proven that black people are as smart if not smarter than white people, so given my hypothesis, I wonder why black men aren't shown in more media ads as being someone you want to emulate. It is rather disheartening that this is the case. I hope I don't seem out of line or off-base with my thoughts, but I have just been thinking about the disparity in disciplines that I am involved in like the media (I am a broadcast journalism major), or the arts (many of the most famous composers, opera singers and artists are white, and most choirs here at Penn State have 1 or 2 non-white people). I wonder if not participating in the arts is considered not ideal? This is just me playing devil's advocate.... All this is to say, I hope that this gross misrepresentation in the media of whiteness as an ideal stops. I hope that by the time I'm more established in media, I can say that as a broadcaster or journalist, I don't give people the wrong idea about what is right. This video in particular showed that we are giving kids the wrong message and we need to show them that they themselves are beautiful and must cherish that (I know that sounds extremely cliche and idealistic). If we don't do that, this problem that we saw in the video will just continue to deteriorate and make us cringe even more. Thu, 1 Apr 2010 22:45:47 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/those-damn-dolls__trashed/#IDComment65340382 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/is-this-just-a-few-bad-apples__trashed/#IDComment63705722 I completely agree that protests can be beneficial, while I disagree with the naming of Tea Parties since I feel like it is an insult to our founding fathers by comparing their struggle to this one. I also understand the mob psychology idea. At what point though, do you chalk up someone saying the n word to just conforming to what everyone says, and someone who is dangerously unstable? These specific protesters definitely do damage the reputation not just of themselves, but Republicans everywhere. I don't want to see Democrats appear holy and perfect and Republicans appear stupid and full of faults, because that is simply not true. Tue, 23 Mar 2010 19:32:22 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/is-this-just-a-few-bad-apples__trashed/#IDComment63705722 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/native-hawaiians-ever-think-of-them__trashed/#IDComment63705075 Anytime you have a population of over 100,000 people in an controlled area, let alone 400,000, they deserve the rights that are afforded to most of the citizens in the United States. America really should learn from the terrible atrocities committed against the hundreds of thousands of American Indians that were either murdered, or beaten into either forgetting their culture, or hating the country that they had first settled in. This is a welcome change and I am glad that Hawaii may be getting the government they deserve. I do find it interesting that some Hawaiians want the old kingdom restored. I can't see how a monarchy would help the situation. Tue, 23 Mar 2010 19:27:31 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/native-hawaiians-ever-think-of-them__trashed/#IDComment63705075 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/is-this-just-a-few-bad-apples__trashed/#IDComment63703427 When I was watching the health care vote unfold a few days ago, they mentioned this report on the newscast. I was honestly flabbergasted that supposedly mature adults could make comments such as those at elected officials no less. I classify myself as a moderate, so I would be equally offended and angry if similar insults were directed towards Republicans. Health care has always been one of the more emotionally charged issues in our country, especially in the last few years. One of the benefits pointed out in the debate of universal health care is that granting it allows people that are impoverished or have a job with little benefits can have access to the same plans the members of Congress enjoy (pretty much the best health care money can buy). This is the only thing that I have heard that seems to make sense to me. I am not going to say if I support or do not support the health care bill, because the truth is, I do not know. What I am sure of, is that the decorum that society preaches and we are taught by our guardians and in school, was obviously violated by these protesters and cannot be tolerated. It is almost as though the protesters abused their right to protest, protected under the First Amendment, to shout racial epithets and other insults at people that were elected to serve the country. I heard from the CNN newscast that the abortion language that was or was not used in the bill was a large reason for the contention between people. From what I have heard, abortion was not mentioned in the bill, and it seems as though these protesters are assuming (you know what they said about that word) that abortion is supported in this bill. It certainly doesn't seem as though there are simply a few "bad apples", but at the very least a whole bushel of uneducated, uninformed sheep who just follow the voice of a Rush Limbaugh or other zealot. These sheep obviously take it to an extreme that needs to be stopped. No protests, Democrat, liberal, Republican, or conservative, should have threats or specific promises of harm directed against ANYONE. I want to make clear that while I obviously condemn the protesters and their so-called "Tea Party", I do not have clear views on health care, or most other issues the protesters complain about. It's the method that I have a problem with. As a side note, calling these protests a "Tea Party" is disrespectful to the history of the United States. It makes the actions of Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, and Madison seem not as monumental, and to compare the act of creating our country with preventing the work of the president is absurd. Tue, 23 Mar 2010 19:15:44 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/is-this-just-a-few-bad-apples__trashed/#IDComment63703427 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/women-and-sports__trashed/#IDComment62814765 Bravo to Natalie Rudolph for taking on this difficult job as a head coach of a male-dominant sport. I know there is a women's football league, and it is clear that they believe themselves to be legitimate, regardless of what the media or the NFL or its fans think. It is definitely a great thing that Miss Rudolph is so self-confident because given the historical significance of her appointment, she is sure to receive a lot of hostile remarks and a lot of pressure from the local community once her hiring really does sink in. I definitely think, while she did not acknowledge this, that chances are she did have to work harder simply because of her gender and the sport she chose. Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:20:27 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/women-and-sports__trashed/#IDComment62814765 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/is-anyone-else-getting-this-stuff__trashed/#IDComment62814021 The thing that I want to get out of both SOC 119 and also reading Laurie's book is that feeling of not just acceptance and tolerance of all people, no matter their race, sexual orientation or social situation, because that is how I was brought up, but a feeling of at least trying to understand where people of different races are coming from so I can attempt to understand them better, as well as converse with them. I truly want everyone to be equal and for all of us to get along regardless of race. More than that, I want people to get along without hiding or changing part of themselves to do it. I'm sure these thoughts seem stupid or naive, but that's how I feel. Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:14:15 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/is-anyone-else-getting-this-stuff__trashed/#IDComment62814021 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/does-this-rudeness-thing-cut-both-ways__trashed/#IDComment62812502 I'm not quite sure how I feel about the anonymous texting idea. The above poster is right in that it allows people who normally would not feel comfortable sharing the opportunity to give their views under the safety and security of anonymity. However, as the person who asked this question pointed out, the drawback is that many people use this platform to be obnoxious and stupid. I don't think any race is exempt from this, as many people have already pointed out. I agree with one of the earlier posters that the ridiculous remarks made by white people about black people were completely out of line. Dropping the n word might seem funny and even cool in front of your white friends, but it's never the right choice of words in mixed company. What bothered me most about the off-topic texts was not necessarily the substance of the text, or even who was saying them, but the simple fact that many people, whether white or black, were just not taking these questions seriously, regardless of what they said. Saying "I fucked Sam's wife" just to get a laugh is pathetic. Again let me say that the original concept is a great one, however it works on the assumption that we as college students have reached a certain maturity level and can handle each task seriously. Obviously with some of the people who texted, this is not the case. As far as the "insensitive" comments made about white people, I was not in the least bit offended. Some of the stereotypes do not fit me (I am not wealthy), and some could fit me (I play sports but am more of a role player-3 point shooter in basketball, possession receiver in football, etc). I think perhaps some of the white people who took offense either felt like those stereotypes were way off base, or on the other extreme, realized they fit them all too well. I would like to think that not all black people see white people as privileged assholes, because I pride myself on being a pretty nice person, and I don't think I am privileged. As a side note, for a lot of years one of my automatic thoughts has been " I love black people." This class had made me wonder if that sentiment is one brought on by some subconscious form of guilt, or is a genuine feeling. This is a really scary realization I have come to just in the last few days. I really truly hope it is a genuine feeling, because I feel like I seek out black people to befriend simply because I have a lot of white friends. Let me know if I'm way off base or something Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:07:55 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/03/does-this-rudeness-thing-cut-both-ways__trashed/#IDComment62812502 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/whats-with-the-theme-parties__trashed/#IDComment59774466 Maybe the idea with these theme parties being mostly hosted by white people is that white people are either extra creative about thinking up new reasons to drink (see: State Patty's Day and Cinco de State), or are extremely stupid (see: State Patty's and Cinco de State). I agree that white people probably hold more theme parties, but I don't think that this is done in order to offend or exclude anyone of color, especially black people. I might be mistaken, since the only theme party I go to is an every-semester toga party held by my fraternity (which is a diverse group). Thu, 4 Mar 2010 18:56:25 +0000 https://www.racerelationsproject.org/2010/02/whats-with-the-theme-parties__trashed/#IDComment59774466