and with the beasts assaulting the dreadnought, the squad isnt cheap, even if it is a small squad ment to do jus this and nothing else, whats going to hurt the dread. The highest strength of the squad is a 5. Rending birds could do some damage but again that is a large chance of failure. S3 + 6 + d3 = a maximum of 12. Then the dreadnought punches back and you have to make a leadership test every assault phase or run away from it. I hope you brought alot of beasts because it doubles the tougness of 3/4 options and those saves look a little shakey.
Then you roll on the chart 1-2= you wasted your time 3 youve blown off one autocannon 4= it wasnt going to move anyways 5= awesome you have achived your objective 6= you achived your objective but now you die in the firey explosion. (remember the 6+ saves and a dread does not give a pain token) So for the low cost of 115 points and the loss of one vehicle and a scoreing unit on this suicide run you have a less than 5% chance of destroying said dreadnought.
You can increase those odds by useing a raider and a 10 strong wych squad but then it gets to 180 points bare bones squad with the same issues on just getting to the target.
On a side note why is it making me split my comments up... Im sure you guys are as annoyed with it as I am
Lets say that the clouds parted and the dice gods looked on you with such favor that your wyches actualy got there. (so unlikely that you didnt think it was possible huh) Now you charge the dread, you need a 6 to plant the grenade. so 5 wyches = 0.833 grenades planted. Lets say you get one now you get to see what the damage is. 16% nothing happens 66% you get a glance and 16% chance you get a pen. (now my math says you have a 2.56% chance to get the pen but it is probably wrong) with it as I am
Now you have to take a round of shooting from the grey knight. With the lack of terrain here in the states it is safe to assume that your vehicle is not completely blocked from his whole army. So your going to get shot by something. With your 4++ you might make it through 2-3 rolls on the damage chart if you are lucky. But you wont be that lucky as you are now well within the 24" range of the greyknight weapons. So Knight captain brother billy joe sees this and his squad piles out of a razorback. Now they get 8 shots at you with s5 storm bolters, 2 shots at you with S7 psycannon, and if that dosent do the trick then you get 3 twin linked shots at you from their razorback. Meanwhile as your venom crashes and burns taking most of the squad with a 6+ save with it the dreadnought keeps fireing at your ravagers or razorwing fighters, something more concerning than the wych squad.
lets look at the whole charge the dreadnought with wyches tactic here.
5 wyches with haywire grenades and venom. This is the cheapest way to get them on the field and possibly achive this tactic.
Bare bones that is 115 points (just a a reminder to everyone the dread in question costs 135)
So the DE get the first turn and you launch the venom like a missle towards the dreadnought. COngradulations you now have a 4++ on the venom.
before you all think that I am weeping and cutting my wrists over this. Let me say that it just seems to be the grey knights in my local area that I have the issue with. THey all use a list based on the formula that I put up above. I play in fort myers florida and had to travel a ways to play in ard boyz this year. There I played against multiple grey knights useing different builds and decisively won. (Drago wing, stormraven rush, purifier spam) Its just these lists, a general not distracted by how uber a dreadknight with a teleporter is and dosent get distracted by all the shiney overcosted things in the book can make a list that just dosent die and dosent seem to loose firepower as the game goes on. Again this is from a dark eldars point of view so a intercepter squad with S5 storm bolters and 2 psycannons does kill/blow up whatever they want against me.
The tactics are to sit in a clup in the forward middle of his deployment zone, all the vehicles get cover from each other, psyfileman, cotez, techmarine, and cotez sit in the center giving his sanctuary bubble to the entire army. Intercepters sit in the back and jump/shunt to the front on his turn to drop a transport or wipe a squad. Sit there until turn 2 or 3 then start to move towards objectives once they have gained superiority. If I get the first turn they sit in the rear of their deployment zone knowing that the longest range i have is 36" and they have enough heavy bolters autocannons and multilasers to do the job of de meching me.
A big issue at my local and the states in general is a lack of terrain to hide a raider behind but that is another issue.
Here is my typical list
Archon 9 wyches with raider, 4x 10 warriors with blaster in raider, 3x 4 trueborn with blasters in venoms, 3 ravagers,
2 large beast master squads with alot of razorwings
a very aggressive list, season to tase depending on the point level played
The grey knights at my local usualy consist of
Cotez techmarine with grenades vindicare assassin, 10 terminators with usual assorted weapons, 2-4 cheap warrior acolite squads in razorbacks, 1-2 psyker squads in chimeras, 2 units of intercepters 1-2 psyfilemen
The grey knights set up on the center line and slowly back away from you shooting all their mid range weapons as you try and close the distance. The torrent of fire increases as you break the 24" range with them and dosent let up. Then once you get there you have to accept that your final charge will be difficult and dangerous because cotez is rideing in the center box, giving his entire army his ability. Then after taking the losses on the way in, taking losses from dangerous terrain, and having to hit the GK boxes on a 4+ because they moved. You have destroyed 1 vehicle, congradulations. Now the grey knights open fire again and what was left of your assault elements is destroyed and the psyfilemen have popped your long range units in the mean time.I know I sound bitter and I am to a large degree with this codex. I think it has something with me putting $800 into a dark eldar amry, spending 100+ hours lovingly crafting every piece, then having to fight an army where the basic troop squad has a 75% chance to blow any skimmer I have out of the sky just by looking at it for a turn._Rant off, im going back to painting my new cotez model.
Some armies out there think they have an advantage and can out shoot them, like imperial guard with large ordinance batteries, or tau with braodside units, but at most they get 1 turn of shooting at the grey knights until they become engauged with a psyfileman and battlefield experience will tell you that once these backfield units start to take hits they fold.
Now with assault oriented armies like orks nids or any marine variant can make, you still dont have the advantage that you think you do. _
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