en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/781560 Comments by DADonahue http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55855644 CONTINUED... Discrimination and segregation of any kind against any citizen is unconstitutional. This was just as true for Italians and Irish (among others) throughout the 1800s; for woman prior to 1920 and women's suffrage; and for blacks prior to the 1960s and the civil rights movement. Gays are just the latest victims in a long history of some narrow-minded biggots trying to impose their will on others. So either continue to stay sheltered in your own ignorance and blindness, or open your eyes to the fact that ANY RIGHT AFFORDED TO EVEN ONE CITIZEN SHOULD BE EQUALLY AFFORDED TO ALL. Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:39:52 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55855644 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55855573 Am I not the one that you blasted as being a "little man" just moments before you posted this? Just so you know (since you still can't seem to keep up), the "so many" who "so easily forget" I am referring to includes you. My former comment is not pro-DADT. "Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion" says the Constitution of the U.S. Therefore, since anti-gay sentiment and policy stems from a perceived moral incorrectness based on some religious teachings, it has no place in our government, military, etc. The founders went to great lengths to ensure that we as a society did not try to legislate morality, and you and your kind attempt to circumvent that most fundamental bit of our core rights on a daily basis. CONTINUES... Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:38:49 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55855573 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55538999 DODT??? Maybe DAskDT. The Air Force is in big trouble if one airman basic with his schlong out can force of a whole flight of trainees into the corner, scared!!! What are they gonna do when someone comes at them with a real weapon? Maybe the force needs to go ahead and start out training hand-to-hand against unarmed free-swinging homosexuals (just in case our enemies are reading this also), then work their way up to an actual threat? Fri, 5 Feb 2010 22:52:16 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55538999 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55530382 Thank you. How do so many so easily forget that we "(Congress) shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." We are currently a majority christian nation (demographically), but the basic tenants of our society are freedom of religion and that "my rights end where yours begin." We are absolutely a secular republic, and as soon as we cease to be that we will be no better off than Iran (or any other state that imposes religious doctrine on the whole of their citizenry). Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:41:19 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55530382 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55529430 Is your only "valid" point to criticize a typo? Really? Read a bit, study up, and come back to the big people's table when you actually have something to add to the conversation. Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:32:40 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55529430 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55528820 "No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him." Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:27:13 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55528820 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55526532 What do the Old Testament and God have to do with our military? Do you suppose that everyone in the military is your type of Christian and therefore bound by the judeo-christian law (if anti-gay beliefs are even truly God wishes)? Or, are you going even further to say that our military should be a Christian Army? Well hello, welcome back the crusades and Gerald, leader of the Empire of the Holy Christian Church. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Our father is our final judge, not you. You will not be required to answer for my sins, and thankfully I will not have to answer for yours. If you want to live in an official Christian State, move to one. This is the USA, land of liberty and protectorate against religious persecution. So, if you want to stay with us, learn to live and let live Gerald. Hold your religion and beliefs dear, and allow the rest of us the same courtesy. "In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to Liberty." - Thomas Jefferson Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:07:48 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55526532 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55519722 Outstanding!!! And, absolutely the truth of the matter. Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:06:17 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55519722 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55519260 Guess we should have known what caliber of individual we were dealing with by your screen name. Seems to me that most often the ones that are most militant and degradingly anti-gay are normally trying to cover up insecurities and some slight homosexual feelings. Maybe you really do want someone "touching you butt?" And, for what it is worth...4th generation enlisted Army from long line of highly decorated career Army non-comms. Your assumptions highlight your abilities. Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:01:54 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55519260 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55511163 CONTINUATION... We will as a society never reach our full potential until we stop being so divisive. We are all different from one another in so many ways (ethnically, culturally, ancestrally, ideologically, etc.), but we have at least one common bond. We are all AMERICANS!!! And, that makes us friends, family, and partners in the greatest nation the world has ever known. Do not deny any of our brothers or sisters their equal right to stand beside the rest of us and fight and die in the service of OUR UNITED STATES. “The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society.” – Thomas Jefferson Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:48:32 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55511163 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55511112 CONTINUATION... Guess that just leaves white heterosexual men of northern European (but not Irish and Italians) and Asian descent. Almost forgot, Asians are all smart, but they are a little on the tiny side (besides who can forget Pearl Harbor and Vietnam). Awe, what the heck, let’s just go back to an all white heterosexual (that we know of) Christian (cause God knows we can’t trust them heathens, and besides they are all sinners too, right?) male fighting force. Man, are we making progress or what? We will have the most efficient and cohesive military EVER if we would just get smart and do that. Oh, wait, I forgot. What is the largest Christian denomination in the U.S.? God knows that the “dunkers” (Baptists) don’t agree with the “papists” (Catholics). Guess we should figure out who is in the majority and exclude the others. But, man will we be the true American powerhouse then. (For those that can’t tell the sarcasm, this is sarcasm and a completely BS way to think – and I do know that the Bell Curve findings are misinterpreted and skewed; just pointing out how intolerant people can use meaningless points to further their agenda). Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:48:00 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55511112 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55510672 Wow, way to latch onto the smallest, most insignificant point. And, by the by, you are correct in that homosexuality was discouraged among Spartan warriors in adulthood. However, during the many years of training in segregation during adolescence, homosexual conduct was encouraged. Either way, this very small point was meant to further dispel the idea that someone who engages in homosexual acts is somehow less fit to be a soldier. As far as “girly men” go, you are playing to the exception not the rule. Using you logic, maybe we shouldn’t let women in, because they can be a little “girly” and usually aren’t physically as strong as men. Well, except for the “butch” lesbians, but they would also be homosexuals wouldn’t they. I guess maybe we can all concede to allow the hetero females to still be nurses though, right? Oh, and don’t forget the Bell Curve and their findings. Blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, Italians, and Irish were found to have lower scores for intelligence. Maybe we should exclude them also, because you know we don’t want an intellectually challenged force. Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:43:15 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55510672 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55358165 No, you are right. But, it does make someone closed-minded and ignorant when they assume their way is the right way and the only way and all dissenters to their personal brand of Christianity/religion are sinners. "God is too big to fit into just one religion." Besides, a religious debate should never enter into the conversation when we speak about our military (which is made up of people from all or most religions). And, if you can't seperate your personal religious mantra from your professional life, find a career where you only interact with other like-minded individuals, NOT our military! Thu, 4 Feb 2010 18:28:18 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55358165 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55356923 DADT does not say that you have to report someone that you "know" is gay. It says that someone can be gay and in the military as long as they are not openly gay and don't tell (and we can't ask), all good. And, it has always been the moral obligation for soldiers to confront injustices when they identify them. Hence, not following orders to massacre, rape, commit atrocities civilians upon civilians even when possibly ordered to do so. Thu, 4 Feb 2010 18:16:11 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55356923 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55355763 So we are all idiots and can't distinguish Adm Mullen from God? Or, is Adm Mullen G-O-D? Wow, some pretty incredible supposition, assumption, and logic fallacy going on here. Let's commit to cutting through all the BS, and we can all just lay it out and be honest. Here is what it all boils down to...are you anti-gay and think that they are all immoral sinners and perverts? Vote NO gays in the military and step to the religious right. Are you anti-nobody and say "shoot, as long as the troop can do their job and cover my six?" Vote who cares and stay right here in the mission-focused middle. It's MISSION FIRST for me. And, anyone who can't handle being a professional and adapting and overcoming to accomplish the mission should find a new less-personally-taxing profession, where one can do their work alone without interaction and distraction from others. Maybe mathmatician, statistician, or physicist? Thu, 4 Feb 2010 18:04:36 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55355763 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55352815 Great!!! So we LOSE out on the company of the closed-minded and ignorant who might have otherwise flocked to our ranks and polluted our service to boot. Man, does this sound more and more like a win-win!!! Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:33:32 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55352815 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55350199 __Roger that, sir!!! Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:07:49 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55350199 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55342458 MAR4LIFE, with all of your 26 years in, maybe you are the one who is out of touch with the pulse of the military. And, for that matter, since when have senior officers and enlisted ever been the ones who are “in touch” with the wants and needs of the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines. I personally don’t currently know a single troop who thinks that DADT should continue or one who thinks that gays should continue to be discriminated against. Maybe it is time for you to actually find out how your marines truly feel about the matter (not just what they might say to you because they know how YOU truly feel about it). I am sure you will find that they feel the same way that I and everyone I know feel; as long as they guy next to them is willing to pick up their weapon and stand and fight when the crap starts coming down, who cares what or who they do in their off time. Open your eyes and welcome yourself to the world Big Sarge. And, for anyone who thinks that gays can not perform and should have no place in the military, how about studying up on great militaries of the world. Try starting with a little group called the Spartans and move on from there. Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:02:08 +0000 http://www.lineofdeparture.com/2010/02/03/mullen-proves-his-mettle/#IDComment55342458