en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/308670 Comments by AEWHistory http://forward.com/#IDComment779576696 In all sincerity I don't believe anyone is making light of their situation. I do believe it is a matter of perspective. The haters are gonna hate and the lovers are gonna love. But the REALITY is that life is generally hard for most people. So saying that they have it tough when that is the norm doesn't really say much. Are they having trouble making ends meet? Me too, but it isn't because I'm a Beta Israeli living in the jewish state. They having trouble getting jobs? So are lots of my friends. The question is are they faring worse than is reasonable and my answer would be no. They are a group of people who came to israel with zero marketable skills for the new society into which they were placed and had to adapt almost instantly. Their children are faring better but are still lagging. The next generation will do better and will likely approach the Israeli norm. Does his suck? Sure it does. The problem is that this is more demonstrative of how far they've come than how much they are being held back. And yes, some Israelis are bigoted assholes, and some of these bigots have power. This is unfortunate but I feel confident that the proportion of those people are smaller in israel thn most places. Anyway, I don't mean to be confrontational as I don't think you meant to be in the least. I just think that perspective is really the key here. I think we can look at the info and come to different conclusions but, in the end, the reality is closer to the positive narrative of success than the negative one. Sun, 5 Jan 2014 09:28:13 +0000 http://forward.com/#IDComment779576696 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/06/07/smoking-gun/#IDComment160724678 Whoever heard of lead being dangerous? :) Wed, 8 Jun 2011 19:40:15 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/06/07/smoking-gun/#IDComment160724678 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/06/07/if-the-chinese-named-this-last-week/#IDComment160528104 Okay, here is what I dont get about the whole Weiner thing: why would a married adult--with a beautufil wife i might add-- feel the need to send lewd messages and essentially PG-13 (maybe R) rate pics to misc women? Seriously! I mean, he isn't getting laid, he is sucessful, he has connections and a reasonable amount of money I think. So what is the attraction? If he is bored why not take up a hobby that has a modicum of social acceptability? Or at least more acceptable than his choice. You know, things like model building, skiing, skeet shooting, poker, snorting cocaine, or even writing children's books. Take your pic, but just about anything would have been better than repeated sexual harassment (except maybe child molestation and murder). I just do not get it... Seems like a twit to me. I suppose i just can't wrap my mind around Weiner's actions.... Heh heh Wed, 8 Jun 2011 05:25:20 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/06/07/if-the-chinese-named-this-last-week/#IDComment160528104 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/06/07/if-the-chinese-named-this-last-week/#IDComment160526133 Well, seeing as the Saudis like cutting things off, why limit him to chemical castration? OTOH, no doubt this loser has already bred, much to the loss of humanity, so we are probably too late to have any useful effect. Owell.... Wed, 8 Jun 2011 05:13:25 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/06/07/if-the-chinese-named-this-last-week/#IDComment160526133 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/06/07/if-the-chinese-named-this-last-week/#IDComment160396824 Lol! I definitely think it could be either. Quintessential Freudian slip. BTW, anyone creeped out by this whole deranged rant? He is supposedly offended by this lewd airport design but keeps harping on penises, vaginas, and penises coming out of vaginas. Seems to me he likes talking bout this an awful lot. Tue, 7 Jun 2011 18:21:27 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/06/07/if-the-chinese-named-this-last-week/#IDComment160396824 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/06/07/if-the-chinese-named-this-last-week/#IDComment160313432 "This is a vagina from which a penis comes out." Hmmm, i think that either this dude is into some funky stuff or he has never seen a penis or a vagina. Or both. Or maybe he is self conscious about beng a hermaphrodite. Take your pick. Tue, 7 Jun 2011 12:32:55 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/06/07/if-the-chinese-named-this-last-week/#IDComment160313432 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/06/02/coldplay-play-dirty/#IDComment158534410 Gotta second Jim here. This wall would not exist if not for terrorism. Moreover, Coldplay, like so many others, fail to mention/notice the success of the wall in saving lives as wells the use of said walls around the world. In fact, there is a famous wall in northern Ireland, and the locals have protested the attempted removal of this wall. So why bemoan the barrier built by Israel? The mere fact that it has been singled out is itself an act of prejudice or ignorance, but the failure to realize that this wall has saved lives--Israeli and Palestinian--just makes the whole argument against the barrier suspect as best. Thu, 2 Jun 2011 13:54:48 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/06/02/coldplay-play-dirty/#IDComment158534410 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/05/24/anti-israel-activist-reveals-real-motivation-for-coming-to-palestine/#IDComment156054801 Chayma, I take issue with some of your list. Tony Judt claimed to be a disillusioned Zionist; so I think he'd be a might be example. I have a difficult time accepting Vanunu as a Zionist, Jew, or anything else. For that matter, anyone with Marxist convictions is not a Zionist, even if they say they are. Marxism is strongly anti-Nationalist. Consequently, any Marxist that claims to endorse Jewish nationalism and Marxism is a liar, confused, or rather hypocritical (note there is a difference between Marxism and many other streams of socialism). My point here is that if you want to put together a list of disillusioned Zionists, I think that it is disingenuous to include people who are Zionists in only the most tenuous sense, or simple not at all. This is why I find myself questioning people like Tony Judt for instance, although he has always insisted he was sincere. Still, saying that you were sincere costs nothing and proves nothing. Hence the problem with these lists. Wed, 25 May 2011 17:36:51 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/05/24/anti-israel-activist-reveals-real-motivation-for-coming-to-palestine/#IDComment156054801 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/05/24/mr-netanyahu-goes-to-congress/#IDComment156050323 Chayma, I think that you're missing a few key points. First of all, it is quite possible for a major new source in a democratic/open press society to have an agenda against said society. News organizations here in the USA often have an agenda and it often is critical of the US unless there is a public outcry for national support, in which case the press has recently taken an unquestioning position of support for government policy. The reality is that neither extreme is what a free press is supposed to offer. Second, this article that you are pointing to is NOT a first person citation. In other words, this is one source citing another source that was supposedly at this conference. That is bad research and bad journalism. Either they should have attended this conference themselves, and apparently they did not, or they should corroborate with multiple sources, and apparently they did not. So this is simple one news source reprinting information from another news source. This brings me to my third point.... If you haven't properly corroborated your sources and you do something like the article in haaratez, then you put yourself at the mercy of the quality, or lack thereof, or the original writers. If they did their job then great. But since this article writer was obviously too lazy to do his job correctly why assume that the original writer I'd any better? And if the original is flawed, then the entire foundation of the article is built on a cloud. BTW, my wife was a television news producer for years and finally left the field for these very reasons. None of what I've said even touches on translation, context, etc. All of these things, taken into account, make the interpretation that you are putting forward very difficult to accept. Even if one believes the things you are imparting to his words, you also have to believe that an accomplished statesmen such as him would be dumb enough to say something like that. Frankly, isn't it much more plausible that he meant something closer to what other folks here are proposing? I'll leave you with one last point. My wife is always quick to make a point whenever she and I discuss the news. What she says is that editing can make anyone say almost anything. Keep this in mind. Not only is this article that you're citing not a reprint of the entire press conference, in is highly edited.... And translated to boot. If there is an agenda here, and there is always an agenda, then this information will be presented in a certain way. Wed, 25 May 2011 17:20:41 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/05/24/mr-netanyahu-goes-to-congress/#IDComment156050323 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/01/28/the-elders-of-zion-are-no-more/#IDComment124616466 Aha, but soon the Arabs will have a new conspiracy theory: Toddlers of Zion: The Next Generation Yup, don't give'em any sh*t or they'll give you a diaper full! Boy, I could really roll with this..... but seriously, I hate conspiracy theories. Ugh! Sat, 29 Jan 2011 23:59:27 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2011/01/28/the-elders-of-zion-are-no-more/#IDComment124616466 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/30/ishmael-khaldi-at-rutgers/#IDComment107069208 This is a simplistic view of academic history. Moreover, it simply does not deal with an individual citation. There is ONLY one way to refute a citation: you must check the sources in the original. The cornerstone of academic history is that citations are provided as proof that sources have been checked by the historian and it must be assumed that these have been presented in good faith. This may seem naive, but there is simply no way to proceed without this system; otherwise every single word of every single source and every single history every written become immediately invalidated and must be rewritten. Or, if you disagree with the manner in which an historian has presented information, then you can trace their research and check for yourself. Morris has done this to some of the so-called New Historians and eviscerated their pathetic histories. What I wonder about is why you think that this means that Morris has 'debunked' himself? As I said in my first message, he's presented multiple theories that some consider mutually incompatible. They are not. However, even if they were, who cares? The job of an historian is not to preach ideology, despite the trajectory of the nitwits who largely represent my colleagues. Let me relay a story: when I started my Ph.d. one of my advisors said, "my philosophy is that an historian should find an ideological territory to stake out and defend it throughout their career." WHAT?!?! That is not history. That isn't scientific. That is religion and it is bad religion and I despise it.... I despise it from WHOMEVER it comes from, because it makes it impossible to discover reasonable accounts of actual events. People who think historians should defend a position, stake out an ideology, and hold the line against all reason are usually the same folks who argue that Morris has somehow done something wrong. If a scientist researching cancer built more and more research about cancer, leading to a clearer understanding of the disease, and creating a more nuanced picture, would you slam that person for changing his/her mind? No. I'm a military historian, and it was assumed that I must be a pro-military, goose-stepping fascist because I study the military. Hmmm, are cancer researchers pro-cancer? This whole line of thinking is for ignorant people. Listen, I've been raised a Zionist and I'll die a Zionist. I will ALWAYS support Israel. But as an historian I will do my job, and I won't be an ideologue about history... which is one of the reasons why I don't make Jewish and Israeli history my professional area of study. I have too much vested interest to maintain the level of partiality needed to produce what I consider to be quality academic work. But I keep up on the field/s and feel try to study the materials as a professional. Unfortunately, most people do not attempt any sort of impartiality on the assumption that since it is impossible to be entirely unbiased, one should just adopt a completely ideological position. Again, IMO, that's like saying, "well, we can't prevent all crimes, so let's get rid of the cops and see how we do." Rubbish, pure rubbish. In the end, in a few decades, we will look back and realize that we are currently living thru an age of ideologies. Not one or two, but many and extreme, akin to what was experienced in the mid-19th century. Mark my words...... "Call me Nostradamus, but dinner's gonna suck" -Me, Kibbutz Negba, to my future wife, 1994... I was right too! Sun, 31 Oct 2010 21:12:00 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/30/ishmael-khaldi-at-rutgers/#IDComment107069208 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/30/ishmael-khaldi-at-rutgers/#IDComment106990625 As I said, she may have intended to act maliciously and distort history... or she may has misquoted what she had heard. I agree that it is probably the former and not the latter, but I have zero doubt as to the veracity of what I've described. The problem is that there are huge numbers of quotes that have been misused, distorted, and so on, as you've succinctly noted. But that doesn't mean that every quote that you may not like gets tossed. It should be verified, it should be placed into context, and in that way it will make sense. Otherwise, yes, it becomes distorted. Sun, 31 Oct 2010 07:04:29 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/30/ishmael-khaldi-at-rutgers/#IDComment106990625 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/30/ishmael-khaldi-at-rutgers/#IDComment106990351 No Walt, the quote that I am describing is not BS. I cannot speak for her intentions but I agree with you about what anti-Semites have done. However, and you may not like this, I think you are doing the same thing on a lesser scale. Just because you do not like what Ben Gurion may have said and/or disagree with it does not mean that it did not happen. As an historian this is something I won't bend on one iota. I've walked away from my first department, delayed my Ph.D., and taken some real hits in my career fighting ideologues and anti-Semites in history.... but I'm not doing this so we can distort history either. Sorry, end of story as far as I'm concerned. As for the quotation to which I am referring, this one was made privately, I believe either among a group of diplomats of the proto-cabinet of the government in the Yishuv/early-Israel. If memory serves it is cited Benny Morris's 1948 (I think that's correct) and was taken from the national archives in Israel. Now my guess is that you'll respond by tearing into either Morris or 1948, and that's fine with me, but until you can disprove the veracity of that source it stands. As for Morris, I actually think his research is quite good and his positions, which many have argued represent incongruities, in fact are not that hard to reconcile. But that's my opinion..... Sun, 31 Oct 2010 07:02:04 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/30/ishmael-khaldi-at-rutgers/#IDComment106990351 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/30/ishmael-khaldi-at-rutgers/#IDComment106982426 About the girl and the Ben Gurion quote, she is very loosely paraphrasing and I'd like to think that this was done either as a misunderstanding or not recalling correctly. What Ben Gurion said, if I may paraphrase, is that he wasn't surprised at Arab hostility and could imagine that if he were in their position he might have done the same (or something like that). However, I don't recall the context of this quote and I'm too lazy at the moment to find it. If anyone is interested, I'm sure that I can dig it up. As to the article, very, very interesting. I agree that this is tame. I'm not sure I'd have been able to hold my tongue. I am sick and tired of the Arab/Muslim superiority, the hatred, the equating minor suffering with great tragedies, and so on. It makes me sick and, what is worse, has formed a black area in my heart that never existed before.... and I hate it. I know it sounds ridiculous, but I hate the hatred! Sun, 31 Oct 2010 05:16:19 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/30/ishmael-khaldi-at-rutgers/#IDComment106982426 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/18/the-day-in-israel-mon-oct-18th-2010/#IDComment105104349 I agree that publications like the Econoislamist needs to be watched, I actually don't agree with not reading these publications; at least not on a personal level. I've always read Time, USNews, and Newsweek, for example, in order to try to get a somewhat balanced view of how the news is being reported. I'm a big believer that, especially today, it is imperative to avoid self-reinforcing ideological news sources. The problem is that this is becoming almost impossible, so the best way to balance this is to read from multiple points of view. For most reasonable people (heh, there's that naivete again) if you're given all the sides then most people will see thru the bull. For those with an ideological agenda to begin with, no amount of arguing with them would matter... Wed, 20 Oct 2010 22:06:12 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/18/the-day-in-israel-mon-oct-18th-2010/#IDComment105104349 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/18/the-day-in-israel-mon-oct-18th-2010/#IDComment105100685 I am so glad that we have the fine folks in Hamas, the PA, and other equally caring Arab/Muslim organizations making sure that Israelis and Jews are not 'misled' by their leaders. Perhaps, once they've finished serving our community they might be able to serve their own..... one day.... Wed, 20 Oct 2010 21:52:44 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/18/the-day-in-israel-mon-oct-18th-2010/#IDComment105100685 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/17/return-of-the-elders-of-moron/#IDComment104788597 Hello all and welcome to the JCA (that's the Jimmy Carter Anonymous for those of you newbies)..... We are gathered here today because we once considered Georgia Jimmy to be a well-meaning soul; an intelligent man who meant to do some good. Instead we've discovered that he's a closeted racist pig and a arrogant little f*ck besides. So now we confront the demons of our past and, in doing so, cleanse ourselves of Mr. Peanut's evil ways. That is why we are here ladies and gentlemen. Here is the start of the 12-step program: 1. Admit that we were fools to have ever believed a word this cracker ever said. 2. Accept that those he associates with are also likely fools, knaves, or worse. 3. We should thank our lucky stars that he did not win in 1980, regardless of your feelings about Reagan. As you progress you will advance to some of the more advanced stages of Carter-cleansing. Best of luck in your program, Aaron Tue, 19 Oct 2010 14:25:36 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/17/return-of-the-elders-of-moron/#IDComment104788597 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/13/rule-of-law-is-over-in-the-uk-dont-sell-arms-to-jews/#IDComment103951976 Yep, that's been my feeling more and more lately. I read quite a few academic journals and we are not the only people who feel this way; there are quite a few quality academics that are writing about these issues--and other related fare--trying to get policy makers to understand the road that we are heading down. Unfortunately, none of these people have the political weight of a pre-WWII Winston Churchill.... and even he failed almost completely. Very depressing.... Thu, 14 Oct 2010 07:07:34 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/13/rule-of-law-is-over-in-the-uk-dont-sell-arms-to-jews/#IDComment103951976 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/11/ambushed-again/#IDComment103934362 I agree, it is child abuse, plain and simple, but can you imagine the international outcry that would take place if Israel did this! I can just imagine the headlines now: "Israel stealing Muslim children..... Arab parents in mourning over loss of their human bombs!" Potential article quote: "The Zionist entity has once again shown how awfully it treats its Arab citizens. Our own children have been taken from our homes! These are the children we love, we feed, we care for, we strap explosives to. Every Western parent can surely feel the loss of our loved ones. These children are almost irreplaceable.... unless we can score some RPGs or a good camel; then its no big loss....." Thu, 14 Oct 2010 04:01:30 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/11/ambushed-again/#IDComment103934362 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/11/ambushed-again/#IDComment103932421 Of course, G-d forbid any news outlet should come out and say, "Hey folks, NEWSFLASH: there are Muslims and Arabs out there committing unprovoked violent acts against Israelis and Jews!." Of course, this really wouldn't really be news, would it..... Thu, 14 Oct 2010 03:52:48 +0000 http://www.israellycool.com/2010/10/11/ambushed-again/#IDComment103932421