en-us https://www.intensedebate.com/users/599349 Comments by 2ndhelping http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2696#IDComment134048369 Be sure to check the \\\"Food\\\" section on the menu. You\\\'ll find a selection of our recipes, divided by type. Fri, 11 Mar 2011 04:52:36 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2696#IDComment134048369 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2613#IDComment127976119 Wow Greg, I've been chewing on your posts for two weeks now. You brought up some amazing points. I never actually thought about the approval aspect of maintenance. For me personally, and this is unflinchingly honest, I'd just like people to stop getting in the way of not only my goals, but more importantly, their own. I'm not one for using highly social justice-type terms, but Fat prejudice is a very real thing; post-fat prejudice exists just as strongly. Sometimes I feel it when I speak with people; the *need* people have to regain your weight, or fail in some way, astounds me. My personal answer was to become a loner, but especially since I started Second Helping the more that "I'll be nice about it, but I'm doing my own thing, thanks" has started to thaw. I don't usually think of this in terms of acceptance, but of empowerment. Thanks for the post! LOL, it'll probably be another two weeks while I'm chewing on it some more! -- RL Mon, 14 Feb 2011 21:53:22 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2613#IDComment127976119 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2696#IDComment126337108 Missed ya man! I largely agree with you; they're not food (unless you have my homemade ones. Yum!). They're a tool for when you're caught in the moment and in want of better options. I think of most things on a checks/balance system. Remember how nothing comes good, fast and cheap? With food, I liken it to the same thing: good/non-detrimental/fast/cheap. In each moment, I decide which ot the 2-3 is most necessary. . But I'm down with the old-timey food practices. If you look at most classic cooking philosophies, they have wonderful weight management applications. You mentioned one. Even something as simple as "if you can't taste it, you don't need it in the dish" is endlessly useful. Sun, 6 Feb 2011 18:38:05 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2696#IDComment126337108 http%3a%2f%2fwww.secondhelpingonline.com%2f%3fp%3d2824#IDComment126162920 I'm with ya there on the more systems the better. Especially perspectives on weight maintenance/post-weight issues can vary so greatly. And I'd shudder to think that I"m only forum specifically dedicated to post-weight issues. Sparkpeople's AT Goal team is solid, and I have tons of respect for the Three Fat Chicks maintainer's forum, among others. But no, I can't think of any. Can't wait to get it going! Sat, 5 Feb 2011 18:02:45 +0000 http%3a%2f%2fwww.secondhelpingonline.com%2f%3fp%3d2824#IDComment126162920 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2713#IDComment122823111 Zhara, you're easily becoming my favorite Second Helper. :-) And thanks. If my weight loss taught me anything about cooking, it was how to work around obstacles. My maintenance taught me how to face them. A while back I talked about the idea of classifying everything around macronutrients -- it's something both Angela and I do in our kitchens. Ie, not think "ham" or "turkey" or "tofu" but "protein." If you think of food in that way, from a cooking perspective it opens up a world of possibilities. Just switch out proteins: smoked turkey meat or marinated tofu into a chicken dish, and adjust things around until you have something completely different and yet somehow linked to the foods of old. There's a big world beyond ham ... it's a way to not only stay engaged with your food, but also actively thinking about what you're putting in your body in a fun manner. Love your blog, also! Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:44:33 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2713#IDComment122823111 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2696#IDComment121088022 Honestly, this is one of the reasons I got seriously into cooking. At the risk of sounding snooty, I finally realized I could do better myself than what was being offered to me. I view most protein bars on the market as \\\"tools\\\" moreso than \\\"food.\\\" Food is what I cook and post on Second Helping. Bars are just my last resort for Making It Work. I\\\'m also used to being completely let down by the food industry offering \\\"smart\\\" choices (hardee har har) but when you look at the label, as imperfect as food labeling might be, you realize they\\\'re junk. Zahra, if the bars in Europe are a letdown, seek out \\\"The Instinct Diet\\\" by Dr. Susan Roberts. She has some wonderful snack recipes that are simple, chocolate-laden little fiber bombs. Thu, 13 Jan 2011 17:31:07 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2696#IDComment121088022 http%3a%2f%2fwww.secondhelpingonline.com%2f%3fp%3d2675#IDComment96556080 Yep, they can be pretty spiffy. Purees in general are tremendously useful in ways beyond simulating mashed potatoes, and we'll get into that. Thanks! Thu, 2 Sep 2010 08:45:46 +0000 http%3a%2f%2fwww.secondhelpingonline.com%2f%3fp%3d2675#IDComment96556080 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2449#IDComment82256428 Beautifully put, John. Well, I learned this the hard way personally; since I began Second Helping, I REALLY learned it. Maintainers, unless folks who've bucked the trends push and push hard, are more or less on their own so far as society and the diet industry is concerned. It's not a matter of any individual element of the diet industry; from the lack of research, not having lived through it, or outright fear of stepping beyond the normal "fat pant" conversation, EVERYONE'S afraid to broach the subject. Obviously, that's something I'm trying to change, both in this site and in behind-the-scenes stuff. But food is no different; to pull off what I have in my own life, I had to completely dismiss the idea of target marketing because no one is targeting folks interested in maintaining their successes. So I looked at the gourmands, the chefs, the food network folks and thought: how can I apply what they're teaching? Even if they looked like I did, how I can they be useful to me? What do I ignore or adopt? So I looked at the principles of their teaching knowledge and then figured out ways. Suddenly, I became a "healthy gourmand" or foodie. That was never my intent. Little old me? I was just trying to find food that wouldn't bore me out of my mind or make me want two pizza and a fast food parade. I was just trying to meet my goals and survive while doing it; I never counted on rediscovering food in a manner I couldn't have EVER imagined in my 350 days. That's what kills me about the catch 22 of weight loss marketing and the folks suffering or ignored because of it: the point's not being a "bitter weight loser," it's that there's an amazing life available to people that has NOTHING to do showing off how great you look. It's not about how you look, but about what you do, and finding an entirely different relationship to food is such an integral part of that for me. Sat, 26 Jun 2010 00:20:44 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2449#IDComment82256428 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2539#IDComment78972734 Oh, I whole heartedly-agree. Methinks I'll reword that as that wasn't the implication I was headed for at all. It's like this: yes, therapy and its accoutrements have their use and place. But I also found that folks take the MOST disempowering stance on maintenance possible -- the Sisyphus routine. I actually stopped therapy as I began losing weight, because I found the act of tweaking my exercise/eating and losing weight provided me many of the same benefits: when I was confused or frustrated, truths revealed themselves and worked through just in the process of getting my workout complete. In a confusing unclear world in which nothing is what it seems -- ESPECIALLY in weight loss -- the "mechanics" of maintenance provides a solid ground. That's something to take comfort in. Not to mention strength -- and I'm don't mean muscles. So there's more available to you than just therapy in terms of derailing depressive symptoms -- you can take the case the exercise/eating itself helps you build a life that no matter what happens doesn't mean anything about who you are and what you can accomplish. As someone who's dealt with abuse issues, that lesson means the world to me. And actually discussing the complicated challenges that weight loss inadvertently creates -- lose skin, dealing with old and new relationships, etc. helps drag them up to the light so you can see them for what they are. Ergo, Second Helping. Mon, 7 Jun 2010 17:24:45 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2539#IDComment78972734 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2449#IDComment78833940 @Birdie The depression -- or even just emotional reactions, to put it in neutral terms -- is a big part of why we focus so much on the murkier effects of weight loss here at SH; dealing with loose skin, the comments people make, etc. That has little to do with maintenance/eating/exercise per se, but I remember being floored by these things as I hit goal. And when I say floored, I mean binging like crazy and then relosing the weight. Besides, the whole "willpower" things is highly overrated. *Laughs* Personally, I lose more "willpower" fights than not. It's helpful in breaking a binge cycle, sure, but as a lifelong MO? No thanks. Structure and realizing a variety of goals -- not just related to your body -- help keep me going. And both of those are fueled by a motivation to prove my low expectations of myself -- not to mention society's low expectations of everyone -- wrong. Cultivating my foodie sense also helped immeasurably on the willpower front ... even in emotional situations and I start wanting some bad French Quarter pizza, what stops me isn't "Oh, I must maintain my vigilance and abstinence in the face of most vile sin." It's "Jesus God, that's just horrible food! If I really want to cut loose, why not one of the finer restaurants in the city? I'd rather wait out and go to Slice." Sun, 6 Jun 2010 21:24:35 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2449#IDComment78833940 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2449#IDComment78795762 Keep the comments discussion focused on the material itself, please. Second Helping isn't a depository for everyone's diet or diet company angst. Comparing/analyzing? Great, go for it. Complaining is inappropriate. Food for thought: In losing weight, complaining never got me very far, but initiative makes it easier for others to jump on board. Something to consider. Moving on... Re: weekly vs. daily weigh in | I personally do daily -- when my back isn't thrown out, that is -- but if you're being so specific about calorie adding/subtraction, being able to spot larger trends to see how you fare longterm would be more helpful. Since my eating/life is so chaotic, daily works better for me so I can adjust better. But I can conceive a weekly approach proving helpful. Re: Leading through the transition | All diets ultimately do is provide a structure for eating and maybe exercise that help reduce weight loss for a specific period. That's what they do. *Laughs* Frankly, there's so many other aspects to maintenance beyond exactly what people eat. And beyond that -- honestly, do we need more advice on how to eat? Isn't there too much already? Has all that "eat this?" discussion impacted CDC rates? And if you found a method that works for you, why would you need a maintenance-based plan telling you how to eat AGAIN? In which case, it's just another thinly disguised weight loss book. That's not maintenance. As the NWCR is proving, there's some larger trends in maintenance that are so regardless of HOW you lose weight. and balancing the breadth and depth isn't that hard to accomplish. @ Bill -- I also found it interesting how the six predictors paired up with each other and what they are communicating. We'll have more on that in a bit. Thanks guys and onward! Best, Russ Sun, 6 Jun 2010 13:22:41 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2449#IDComment78795762 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2449#IDComment78380460 Awesome comments. @Carrie -- Absolutely -- the more you fit the "weight management" part of life into everything else you do, the better off you are. There are some differences between weight loss and maintenance, and I find they're difficult to explain mainly because they're so contextual. It's in the thinking. I love that you add it into your mix while you're living your life, on your terms. And I'm a weight daily kind of guy m'self, but I think daily monitoring's effectiveness depends on how you approach your calorie intake. That's not something we've addressed yet. Having a range and tweaking is one thing: if you're a mathematical sort and you add/subtract calories very incrementally, logically it'd follow that weekly monitoring would provide a better sense of your maintenance than daily. A week-to-week approach, in that case, would provide a stronger idea of if the calories you're adding/subtracting are effective. Again, that's better for a vastly different personality and lifestyle than my own, but the option/consideration's there. @Bill -- Lord, I love your posts. And I agree largely. I'd love for you to weigh in (hardee har har) on my breakdowns of these. Otherwise I'll reread your comments tonight and respond more thoroughly. Thanks so much! Thu, 3 Jun 2010 16:19:40 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2449#IDComment78380460 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2412#IDComment75090498 @Christine | Amazing! It's like waking up, isn't it? Wed, 12 May 2010 17:13:50 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2412#IDComment75090498 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2047#IDComment64957409 Thanks so much Christine! You're why we do what we do. To answer your questions: -- What are all the things you put off, ignored, or used the weight as an excuse to duck out of? What you'll find is when you follow the fear and take it on, you'll eventually find your life just can't support the way life used to be. The maintenance tools Angela discusses helps keep the weight in line. Kevin's cooking hopefully can give you tricks to keep your food lively (even if you don't follow the recipes to the letter), Patty and our other contributors can give you some insight. But these just tools to get you thinking about your own life and who you want to be beside fat or "formerly fat." -- Consider that any weight loss method -- they can all work -- doesn't have the "super secret formula." You provide that. We all have more power than we realize -- that's hard to grasp when you've spent a long time being "the fat chick/dude." -- The fear does go away, but it requires work. Not work in the "eat this move that" sense of dieting, but in the actions you take. After the orderly regimens of dieting, the freedom of maintenance can be daunting. Relax into it, ask yourself questions, and most importantly take actions based on your answers -- no matter how unlikely they seem, they will make a difference. Rock it out Christine! Keep posting, ask us any and all questions, and enjoy the ride! Discovering who you are without the weight in the weigh (oh, the puns!) can be scary, but it's actually the adventure of a lifetime. Thanks so much! Onward! Wed, 31 Mar 2010 04:30:43 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2047#IDComment64957409 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2047#IDComment64767925 @ Christine: Darlin', you made me tear up. That was so beautifully put. We talk a lot about the "mechanics" of maintenance and the "significance" of maintenance, if only to distinguish between monitoring your eating/exercise and then also all the "how this effects all the other areas of life" stuff. What I love about your thoughts is how well you combine the two. My hats off to ya, darlin' Onward! Tue, 30 Mar 2010 05:07:41 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2047#IDComment64767925 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2220#IDComment64247183 Hi there Pete, Reading between the lines a little, you're not in the data Angela collected form the MSNBC article, but nonetheless it sounds like you're tired of seeing Biggest Loser folks used as an example. If that's not true, let me know. If it is, please understand this. The point isn't to beat up on anyone dealing with weight loss and what it means for them. With all the other challenges and concerns of actually keeping weight off there's also defending yourself against all the "you lost weight wrong/less righteously" nonsense. So TV personality, bariatric patient, diet center, folks who went it alone -- I don't care how people lost weight. It all has potential to change someone's life for the better, and help others do the same. And in most cases, we all wind up at the same place anyway -- hitting goal, people thinking you're "cured" and abandoned to figure out how to keep it off with almost no support or guidance. And then be looked at as a failure for struggling with it. Some struggle with that more than others at some point, sure. But no one gives those challenges their due while everyone talks about how keeping weight off is impossible. That's not a coincidence. Breaking that vicious cycle is the mission of this site: "Who lost weight better" or all the fat pants "success story" hype aren't games anyone wins playing. That is not something I'll indulge on this site, and if that's misunderstood in Angela's article, I want that point made brutally clear. For the past week, Angela and I teamed up to look at how flimsy definitions of maintenance are and the far-reaching implications of it. In that sense, TV personalities are no different than anyone in the trenches. -- Without research (scientific here, but also marketing) to provide a clear understanding, the diet industry is far less likely to give maintenance any aggressive attention. We got more on this in the next week or two, but it's a horrible cycle of diet industries not offering any genuine guidance on different elements of maintenance and not wanting to focus on maintenance because too few do it. -- From a public policy standpoint, understanding that in obesity, losing weight != keeping it off won't be clear. -- Also, we're all having to work with faulty tools. Holding everything into consideration, we decided BMI was useful to decide between obese/not obese, and then otherwise ignore it. Science has its place -- especially in information-deprived areas like maintenance -- but it's not the end all, be all. It's just a piece of the puzzle, along with food, the "who am I now the weight's gone" questions, fitness, and new goals. Rather, the information folks like the NWCR is important, but we're encouraging them to also look at the bigger picture. More than anyone, they're capable of creating some basic guidelines of maintenance. Using the MSNBC article as an example was just to prove -- with the information available -- just how poorly scientific definitions agree with the people they're trying to address and help. That's point's easier to prove when looking at the most highly visible group of people in weight loss. But by no means are we turning up our nose to contestants. If anything -- outside considerations aside -- it just proves what we're saying. There's a ton of support for losing weight, and almost none for keeping it off, and that's what Angela, Kevin, Patty and I are determined to change. Fri, 26 Mar 2010 20:45:01 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=2220#IDComment64247183 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=625#IDComment30415335 Hey there, wanted to give you an update. I checked with a third nutritionist last week from a internist office in Washington and they are vouching for my numbers. I think the big thing with this is I'm not counting the total calories of the dish -- I just pulled some online examples to provide an idea. The biggest thing to take form this is wine is not quite the "free flavor" its made out to be and requires some care when using. It can add tremendous flavor to dishes, but stick with deglazing or moderate amounts of reductions. I'll keep checking with the various nutritionists I come across just to make sure this is on-target. Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:40:20 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=625#IDComment30415335 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=292#IDComment29833346 Hey there! Glad you liked! This is easily one of my favorites of the bunch. I had to double-check your question with Kevin for an embarrassing reason -- I usually make the mole-pork/mostarda for parties, and if I'm lucky I have enough for a sandwich the next day. It'll keep a month easily in the fridge, Kevin said, if not longer. Enjoy! Fri, 7 Aug 2009 00:13:50 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=292#IDComment29833346 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=625#IDComment28664843 Hey there, thanks for the comment! At the time I wrote this story, The USDA data I tracked down when I worked on this story focused solely on the retention rates of alcohol, bearing its evaporation points in mind. So the differences in alcohol/water evaporation are largely sidestepped from that data. It's a nonissue. *Laughs* If there were any error involved, its my calorie calculations. I checked, spoke checked, and double checked my math with various nutritionists on my math before running that story live. It's entirely possible my calculations were off ... I'll resend the numbers to another nutritionist source and make sure the numbers are accurate. If it turns out they're incorrect, I'll post a comment and change it in the text ASAP. It's important to me these numbers are accurate, particularly as they inform our recommendations for different uses with wines. I cook with alcohol quite a bit, mainly with pan sauces and the occasional reduction used sparingly. Wed, 29 Jul 2009 01:31:44 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=625#IDComment28664843 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=1322#IDComment28550193 What I've loved about this piece is that it was something I take for granted being in the South -- New Orleans and North Carolina aren't *that* different. In some ways, "fat" and "thin" are very concrete -- they aren't descriptions, they're entire *identities.* That's something feminist writing has explained very well. But what Brooks really honed in on was even despite that, fat and thin are very elusive terms. There's "Tabloid" definitions of fat, northern fat, southern fat, etc. etc. etc. When you throw statistical studies into the mix, that just blurs the lines every more. Terms so powerful they're both very concrete yet also very fluid are why the whole language of body image and weight loss is troubling in general. I've been pondering the language of all this quite a bit today. Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:46:34 +0000 http://www.secondhelpingonline.com/?p=1322#IDComment28550193