Yes, "when people are cloaking themselves in shrouds of secrecy for fear of admitting their imperfections, something is wrong." I agree with that. But such "shrouds of secrecy" stem from a faulty perception of forgiveness (not from an "obsession with sin"). Sin is shameful, but forgiveness in Christ is liberating. If only Christians would be more faithful to forgive others as the Lord commands in Scripture.

Mrs. White, I agree. The prevalency of divorce among Christians is oxymoronic at best. Christians should be the one standing tallest and strongest for marriage ... yet all too often some professing Christians are among those desecrating it.

I agree that the "prosperity gospel" is terrible. I'd even go so far as to say it is "another gospel," all of which Paul condemns in Galatians 1.

Wow, Jon! Excellent post! Thank you for sharing this today, I completely agree. I'm specifically reminded of 1 Timothy 1:15-17. "The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. But I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience as an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life. To the King of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen."

That 6-point list was intentional, I'm sure. (If someone else has already said this I apologize.) It's not quite the holy 7. And if you put two more 6's behind this 6-point list, you DO have the mark of the beast.

Awesome post, Jon.

You still misunderstand me. There is a WAY to present the gospel while being (and appearing) genuinely concerned for the lost person not by saying "in love" like a magic spell but by saying EVERYTHING about the gospel in a loving and truly concerned way. I've done this with a staunch atheist before, and while he was not converted, he did say he respects my views because he could tell I genuinely cared about him.

I'm not ignoring everything you're saying. I'm testing what you say according to Scripture, as I should as a Christian. I'm also seeing more and more that we are misunderstanding each other, and so I bid you good night and may God truly bless you, Mr. Wong. I sincerely mean that.

Mr. Wong, how has the Catholic Church been successful? Have they genuinely converted people to faith in Christ, or have they converted people to faith in sacraments? (I would argue for the latter in most cases based on Catholic doctrine.)

I am not dismissing everything you say because you're not a Bible beleiver. The things you say which I dismiss (I've not dismissed all of it, I have agreed with you once or twice) I dismiss because they go against the Bible directly.

Mr. Wong, you misunderstand me. Didn't I make it clear elsewhere that proper evangelism "speaks the truth in love"? If I didn't make that clear, I apologize for my unclarity.

When witnessing, I do not accuse or give a "high-handed" lecture. I present the truths of Scripture IN LOVE. That is the key. And if someone says, "I don't believe that, leave me alone," then I leave them alone. I do not push people toward Christ when I share the gospel with them; rather, I present Him as the only hope of salvation and the only hope of truly abundant life.

As I have said before, I'll say it again. Being "super-generous, super-caring, and super-loving" is great and vital. But that alone will not bring about the salvation of a lost person. A presentation of Christ as the sinner's substitute is needed for salvation to occur. The Bible makes this excruciatingly clear. But you have already told me what you think of the Bible, and so that's all I have to say.

I keep quoting Scripture not only because things should be biblically-based but also because most people who read this conversation would be Christians, who might like to know what the Bible has to say about what we've been talking about.

Ah, there's the rub. I'm not aiming for a response when I talk with a non-believer. I'm aiming for a miracle (see below).

I actually agree with you that "a true atheist does NOT, by definition, believe in the basis for you accusing him of wickedness." I agree with that whole-heartedly.

I realize that your last question, "So why would he break down and ask for salvation upon being told of it?", is probably rhetorical, but I will attempt an answer: my God is a miracle-working God who can change people's hearts. He changed Paul's heart (surely you won't argue with that; Paul went from persecuting the Church to being its biggest proponent), He's changed mine, and He changes countless other hearts even now.

Mr. Wong, I get what you're saying.

Peter was not a follower of Paul. Peter was a disciple of Christ LONG before Paul was. Peter is in all the gospels, Paul doesn't get converted until Acts 9. Peter was no follower of Paul. I get your point though. (Luke was also the writer of the Book of Acts, not Peter/Paul whoever the antecedent of "his" is.)

I know exactly what you were saying, Mr. Wong. I was merely speaking from Scripture. And yes, I do realize that you are completely antagonistic to Scripture.