en-us http://www.intensedebate.com/users/1667 Comments by Don Dodge http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/12/tough-times-never-last-tough-people-do.html#IDComment13004090 Nick, It is hard for a confirmed capitalist that believes in free enterprise to admit this...but, you are right, greed has gotten totally out of control. The sub-prime mortgage crisis, the Wall Street derivative / credit swap mess, the Madoff ponzi scheme fraud, all driven by uncontrolled greed. I have never been a fan of regulation, but these cases certainly point out why there must be regulation and oversight on certain sectors. Sad but true, Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:57:39 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/12/tough-times-never-last-tough-people-do.html#IDComment13004090 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/12/tough-times-never-last-tough-people-do.html#IDComment12138049 Kendall, No evidence, just experience. Every time there is a recession companies focus on saving money nd will try new things to do it. I have seen it in the past 3 recessions. Thu, 4 Dec 2008 23:40:29 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/12/tough-times-never-last-tough-people-do.html#IDComment12138049 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/new-england-ven.html#IDComment11772589 Max, VCs are not in the business of screwing entrepreneurs. They take enormous risks that fail about 60% of the time. They need entrepreneurs...and entrepreneurs need VCs. This is a very unusual approach, one I had never heard before. Does it work? Only time will tell. Founders Fund has a very different approach. Most VC firms are somewhere in the middle. BTW, Max, most VCs are former entrepreneurs themselves and have done it multiple times. They know a lot about what it takes to start a company and make it successful. Your mileage may vary. :-) Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:26:22 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/new-england-ven.html#IDComment11772589 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment11770629 Aaron, See my response to Mary below. BTW, the link you provided doesn't work. I am really interested to see these statistics. Can you repost the link? Thanks! Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:37:32 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment11770629 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment11770613 Mary, Thanks for your comment. After reading all the comments here and on Reddit I tend to agree with you. However, can you point me to any data that supports your statement "More graduate degrees are given out in Science and Engineering fields in the US than ever before" ? Over the past 15 years I have hired software engineers in Boston and Silicon Valley. It is really tough, the starting salaries are higher than any other position in the Tech world, and advancement is very rapid for talented engineers. The economic forces are speaking loudly that engineering is highly desirable. Add to that the number of engineers the US imports from abroad, the need always exceeding the number of visas available, and it sounds like a tight market to me. That said, I agree that the high dropout rate has more to do with poor math skills of applicants, and poor screening by college admissions people. Engineering education can and should be improved. Yes it is hard, but it doesn't need to be boring and torturous. Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:35:40 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment11770613 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment11378978 Chris, I read your post on home ownership rates. Interesting that the "normal" rate of home ownership had been 64.5% for years and then jumped to 69% between 1995 and 2004. A swing of less than 5% of home ownership caused defaults to rise, credit markets to crumble, and banks to fail?____The real problem was Wall Street engineering credit swaps, derivatives, and wildly leveraged positions to the point that a small increase in mortgage defaults caused the whole banking system to collapse. Amazing! Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:25:13 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment11378978 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10657604 I would put USA engineers up against engineers from any other country...and bet heavily on them. Creativity and thinking outside the box is what makes America different. Many of Americas best entrepreneurs are engineers that saw an opportunity and knew how to build it. Knowing how to build it is only half, or less, of the key to success. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:02:11 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10657604 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10657587 Joseph, well said. I completely agree. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:58:24 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10657587 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10657575 Rob, I have heard this a lot. The arrogance of these engineering professors is troubling. Put them in the real world of building products at a real company and see how they do. I am reminded of a line by Bill Murray in Ghostbusters. He and his college professor buddies were thinking about leaving the university to start a company. He warned them "Hey wait a minute...I have been in the private sector...they expect results". Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:55:44 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10657575 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10657562 Shelly, Thanks for sharing your experience. I understand that engineering is hard work, but why do professors feel the need to make it uncomfortable and unenjoyable. There is a way to work hard but still enjoy it. These professors wouldn't last a month in the real world where they need to lead teams of engineers to build a product. Sad...very sad. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:51:34 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10657562 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10657554 Chris, after reading all the comments here, on Hacker News, and Reddit, I tend to agree with you. The admissions people aren't doing a good job. the students are ill prepared, and many of them choose engineering for the wrong reasons. This post has generated more comments and page views than any other post the past two years. I had no idea this was such a hot topic. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:48:06 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10657554 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10657542 Dan, Your story is unfortunately very common. Many students have complained that the professors could barely speak english...and the TAs were even worse. These schools do a poor job of explaining to students what the program is all about, and seem to feel it is the students fault if they don't adapt. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:44:27 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10657542 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10657529 Sam, Thanks for taking the time to share your experience and insight. You are right, many high school students don't understand what engineering is all about. The college admissions people should do a better job of screening candidates. MIT, Olin, and some other schools put a lot of effort into screening. Given the choice between partying and taking an easy major vs. working hard and having no free time...for an 18 year old the choice is pretty simple. Only he most dedicated students will choose engineering. Congrats to you for sticking with it. You deserve success and prosperity when you graduate. Thu, 13 Nov 2008 12:39:55 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10657529 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10546086 Keith, Totally agree. Rose-Hulman, Harvey Mudd, Olin, and other schools that focus on teaching undergraduate engineering have a very different approach, and remarkably different results. Others Like Georgia Tech and Illinois have MUCH larger programs that graduate 4,000 or more engineers. Those programs serve a different, but valuable purpose. Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:44:16 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10546086 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10545999 Dev, good points. Many leaders point to the huge number of engineers pumped out in India and China compared to the US to sound the alarm. There is little mention of the quality of those engineers, or the employment prospects for them. The numbers are also distorted because they include all disciplines, not just engineering. Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:40:46 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10545999 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10545978 Bill Gates dropped out too. He did OK, but I wouldn't suggest everyone take that path. Reading the comments here and on Hacker News I have a new appreciation for the plight of engineers. Lots of trade-offs. Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:37:28 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10545978 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10545970 Pranav, Thanks for your perspective. Great points that echo those on the Hacker News thread. John Doerr and others use the numbers to shock us into action. The US needs more great engineers, but not 300,000 every year. It is unclear what the desired number should be. Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:34:13 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10545970 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10545917 Over on the Hacker News thread I have read lots of comments like this. Advanced math skills are required for sure. Others say the raw number of garduates doesn't matter, it is the creative and entrepreneurial talents of US engineers that really matters. Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:28:01 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10545917 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10545906 Good points. So, the universities should do a better job of explaining teh requirements of the engineering program, and a better job of screening applicants. The high schools should do a better job teaching advanced mathematics and getting kids excited about engineering careers. Dean Kamen, founder of the First program (robotics competition for high schools) has done a lot to advance engineering education. We need more of that...a lot more. Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:25:37 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10545906 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10540578 The interesting thing about the high drop out rate is that most engineering students don't drop out of school, they just switch majors. So, you would expect a "drop-in" rate into engineering, but it rarely happens. Wed, 12 Nov 2008 01:15:04 +0000 http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/11/50-of-us-engineering-students-dropout---why.html#IDComment10540578