Amen, and Amen! Not spending time in God's word is like carrying on a one-way convo with a friend...and I'm the only one talking. God is totally more gracious and forgiving than any earthly friend could be, but why treat the creator of the universe like that ...that is the conviction of my heart regularly!

I guess my thing is, I really don't "care" if he asks Taylor for forgiveness. It is certainly the honorable thing to do - even biblical (which, as a Christ Follower means more to me than people's impressions). Even if Kanye did apologize, some would doubt his sincerity. I like how Adam (above) put it, "i don't have anything to forgive him for.. maybe taylor does."

One thing that drives me nuts is when we, as non-participants in something, expect to know all the deets AND approve of the results and reconciliation. It's maddening. [I'm sure that at dozens of Proverbs about this!]

Amen to your final sentence! The only solution to my "they R sinful, fallen & need a savior too." comment is exactly as you laid it out: confessing, repenting, and accepting...personally.

Peace!

Three thoughts:

1. I've had "and suck ensued" situations & moments in my 22 years of marriage and am so thankful for the (1) grace of my Lord and Savior and (2) the god-loving wife that He blessed me with. Los - your transparency if so refreshing and needed in the body of Christ.

2. As to Kanye. He seemed sincere and I won’t judge his heart. [Ouch…the plank in my eye just hit the monitor!]

3. Last week, during The Nines, someone tweeted, "several of these [videos] on humilty. What does that say about chrch leadrs?" My retweeted response: "…/ they R sinful, fallen & need a savior too." Church leaders, followers, singers, students, housewives, homeless, executives – we all a scummy sinners. I think we forget that…I know I do.

Delete, not delete, listen to, not to listen to,…it’s a personal decision. What we each (as Christ Followers) certainly need to do (with Kanye or anyone else for that matter) is balance our desire/actions to defend the wronged with the grace that we ALL have received (ALL - not just those of us who have had "and suck ensued" moments). Jesus defended...without sinning (though He didn’t need grace). We ought to strive for that.

Thanks!
Your fellow joker

Great post (looking forward to the others). I like the honor vs. obligation.

One other thing to be mindful of as WLs. It's more than just a Sunday gig:

Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. James 3:1

Thanks again!

Sorry - too many quote marks...the three large paragraphs are from Doerksen. I'm not a songwriter (OK, I just haven't tried). Maybe someday! PEACE!

Karen and I were both getting ready for work. We normally didn't have the TV on, but that morning we did for some reason. When the first plane hit, Karen called me and I said Hmmm. When the second one hit, I knew it was terrorism.

It was a long day for both of us at work. It got longer as we watched the terror and sorrow on TV that evening and over the next few days. The loss was so sad - even from across the country.

Brian Doerksen wrote "Hope of the Nations" during this time in response. He writes:

"You are the hope living in us, You are the rock in whom we trust, You are the light, Shining for all the world to see, You rose from the dead conquering fear, Our Prince of Peace drawing us near, Jesus our hope living for all who will receive, Lord we believe"

During the first days of September 2001, I got a strong impression that I was to write a song of hope that the Church could sing. Actually I had been trying to write a song of hope since '99, when many people were overcome by the fear of Y2K, but none of my writing attempts led anywhere. I could sense this time was different as I began with "Jesus, hope of the nations . . ."

The writer of the gospel of Matthew quotes the prophet Isaiah who says "In his name, the nations will put their hope" Matthew 12:21. I wanted to communicate that hope was not a feeling, but sourced in the person of Jesus. I finished the verse and the pre-chorus, but couldn't seem to get the 'right' chorus. Then September 11th happened and I realized even more clearly why we needed songs of hope to sing!! In the days following, when I was grounded due to the planes not flying, I wrote the chorus, and within a few weeks, the first version of the song was recorded in Colorado Springs."

How true - God is faithful, our hope, and as you wrote - sovereign.

JRallis, It is a touchy one that requires discernment by leaders and understanding by the church body. A few comments:

- there are many parts in a church and I think the cool thing about ours is we don't seek to segregate singles, families, seniors in worship. Again, I go back to the passage I referenced in my orig post.
- it is all about church body culture & size. We're pretty diverse culturally, age-wise, and are a body at about 200 people (max).
- don't get me wrong, we do have a nursery and kid's church during the sermon time.
- I do agree that parents need to be sensitive to distracting people's worship - like during the prayer, sermon, Communion, baptisms, etc. (some parents are more discerning than others.) I've been bugged before...given the "looks"; but in the scheme of things, God was lifted high and Satan lost.

BTW, we don't have kids yet (Lord willing, we're adopting REAL soon). Not that not having kids should make a diff, but maybe some would let that impact their response. I'll be honest, there were times when seeing kids bothered/hurt me (being without); but through God's grace, I'm OK with it. But it is hard...I know.

Blessings!

From my comment to Russ Huttto's post (link at bottom) ... same opinion!

"I think families should worship together as much as possible – at and away from our brick & mortar “churches.” Churches should offer environments that promote this – giving opportunities for this as it fits their size and culture. I can’t recall any defined or implied children or teen programs in the bible; but, to the disciples rebuke, Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. “ (Mark 10:13-16). To me that is somewhat of a model…

At our church, we keep everyone in the service through the music worship portion and have a children’s message before dismissing them to their own ”service” (0 to 5th grade) [given attention spans, message content, and distraction avoidance.] Our size allows for the children’s message – it is an East Valley distinctive that was started by our current pastor (when I went as a kid this was not offered). During this time, I always think of the Mark 10:13-16 passage when the kids run and sit around Pastor John on the steps of the platform. Their innocence, wonder, and honesty are convicting at times – OK, many times. When you think about it – aren’t we all supposed to approach God with that child-like innocence, wonder, and honesty? In this case, I think the kids model worship for the adults!

As the worship leader at our church, it is so cool to see families singing praises to God with their kids – they are modeling worship. Each week I see a mix of dads holding their kids and clapping and singing, moms praying with them during prayer (ok, I peeked one time), Jr. and Sr. High student standing with their friends and/or family, basically families being families before God and imparting a key part of following Christ: gathered and celebratory worship.

Bottom line: Family (Generational) Worship / Cross-Generational Worship ROCKS! It’s biblical and the way to go!"

ORIG: http://russhutto.com/2009/09/facilitating-family-...

Great set! We're doing God of this City for the first time this coming Sunday! Blessings!

Rich - totally true & agree. Care and discenment is needed...at some point, we cross from honoring God to judging others.

I know a person at church who cringes each time someone says "awesome" apart from talking about God and has even approached me about talking to some of our leaders about it. My counsel was that - knowing the hearts of those who used the word - they were not taking anything away from the AWESOMENESS of God...it was a cultural use.

Just a thought (to stir things up)...How many of us who abstain from using Awesome in regular conversations use "jeez" or "gosh"?

Brandon - way to get the convos going on a Thursday!