Your comment is consistent with my position.

The woman has two brains, hearts, gonads and four lungs when the fetus develops them. The heart and brain begin in week 5, lungs in week 8. End of week 10 is the end of the embryonic phase.

I still talk about "first trimester", but I'm conflicted where the line should be drawn. The first trimester is the most fragile, its the time when an embryo is most likely to naturally abort, which is why our tradition is to wait until after the first trimester to begin sharing the news with extended family and friends. But the more I contemplate this issue, the more I push the line of demarcation earlier (than the end of the first trimester).

"And? A newborn is helpless. It can't survive without care. That it could then be supplied by another is completely irrelevant"

Since we're talking about the woman's body, this is quite relevant. You're right, a newborn can survive without the mother's body. Prior to a certain stage of development in womb, that is not the case.

I think we're just whistling past each other. I respect your position, but there is little chance of convincing me without rational deliberation and evidence. I say that now, but I've moved closer to your position over the years as I've contemplated this issue ad nauseum. I imagine also, there is little chance I'll convince you of anything on this topic. Not that that is my goal. I just hit back at you in response to the "butchers thousands of black babies every year" comment. After all, I do despise ideology and the base emotional appeals it engenders.

Not so much as your attempt to sidestep the argument into nonsense.

Nonsense - the teflon coating of pinheads.

Yet its more just to that potential human being to bring him/her into a world he/she is not wanted and was created by an act of violence?

Its not any less of a human being. Expect possibly due to the fact half its genetics come from an individual who could be argued is less of a human being. Life is suffering enough, the government shouldn't control women to the point of causing additional suffering for her and a potential unwanted offspring. Its the mother's business, not yours or the governments. In cases of rape, its not even the business of the deusch who contributed the rest of the genetics.

I quoted you and then stated I agree. Can't state it more simply than that.

You must be shocked I got back to you so quickly on my meme? Frankly, even when the mother has two hearts, four lungs, two brains and both sets of gonads, that fetus can't survive without the woman's body. Yet I still agree, a fetus that has reached that point of development, should not legally be allowed to be aborted.

And I don't know how that relates to firing a gun into a dark room.

Mitten's numbers don't jive. If 49% of people don't pay any taxes, how are 90-95% struggling so much?

"Certainly, there are people such as Warren Buffett and Bill Gates who are ensconced in the top tier, but far more common are people who are rich for short periods."

One-third of the top 20% dropped a level, and that supports the idea its far more common that rich people are rich for short periods? The author must be a product of public union education, eh?

You can add to the Buffett and Gates list, those enconsed in the top tier: banking executives, members of corporate boards of directors, private equity executives. Duh. Our system is the system they bought and constructed to keep themselves at the top and others from even having a chance to play the game. That is, those who don't try to play the game without already being in the top tier. You know, the people tea party republican conservatives get on their knees for.

"The government controls my body to the extent that I may not legally initiate force against another. That principle should be universal. When a mother has two hearts, four lungs, two brains, and both sets of gonads (49% of the time), you get back with me on that "their own bodies" meme. "

Agreed. Ban the procedure after the first trimester, with exceptional exceptions.

Week 6 is about the time when the baby starts to form. Its still a clump of cells, but development is really starts to hum along at this point. Yes, the heart begins to pump blood in week 6 too. Its about this time I support banning abortions. At the very least to ban them after the first trimester. Far more babies naturally abort in the first trimester than manual abortions. And I still support exceptions for rape, etc. I support your freedom to choose for yourself. Its no one else's business.

I wish conservatives could prove their arguments are intellectually sound just one time! Granted, the word "intellectual" is a dirty word in conservative theology these days.

Dammit Hank, you busted me. i did not read any of this guy's speech. I applaud the action. I have a very low opinion of Mr Ryan, so I enjoy anyone who sticks his elitist ego back in his face.

The guy probably is completely clueless, many leftists are. Especially in Wisconsin. I'm not clueless, so I'm content to transpose my perspective to provide support for his action. Its the kind of thing Max Powers does, and he doesn't give a dam what anyone thinks of it. :)

"You think it is impossible for a conservative to respect MLK? You think that racism can only come from the conservative?"

No and no, most certainly not. But Conservatism is the political theology that enfranchises racial overtones to appeal to a segment (southern, white) of voters who harbor racist traditions. And its a simple fact that blacks vote for Democrats overwhelmingly, therefore preventing blacks from voting is a natural fit for Conservative policy (incessantly whining about voter fraud and supporting laws to diminish black participation in voting).

You don't like this, you should work to change it within your caucus.

Quite true, free markets are truly fair to all men and women regardless of race, gender or other factors. When a free market comes into existence, I will celebrate with you. Fantastic ideal it is. In the purview of reality it is nowhere close at this time.