Remember when Jesus chased the money changers out of the temple, beat them with brass knuckles, and shot them in their knee caps?

Neither do I. ;-)

The few books I've read like that are are usually preaching to a choir that I no longer sing in.

The one reason that keeps coming back is that I wasn't a True Christian™. I actually had a friend tell me I left the faith because I wasn't Catholic, which would be appalling to my conservative Christian friends who believe that Catholicism is one step away from being a cult, or maybe already there.

Nearly all of these reasons that people come up with are identical to the reasons cults give, that should give some pause.

Certainly it would be nice if both sides (I hate that there are even sides) could always treat each other with kindness and respect, and I've observed horribly viscous behavior from atheists and Christians alike, but the contrast of Christians talking about love and then turning around and doing the opposite is just too hard to ignore sometimes.

The problem is that most just leave a church if they don't like what goes on there. At the church I grew up in, some friends and I stayed and tried to change things, for a while, but gave up. I'm glad we did as it is a good church that does a lot of good in the community, but they were too liberal for us. I'm glad they didn't change.

Good stuff, Matt, and I have similar feelings about the matter, though I was not a charismatic, I was actually totally against it, because, even then I could see the manipulation.

This is pretty much where I am now: http://anzaholyman.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/silen...

It's so nice to not have it all figured out. ;-)

My debates, though rare these days, tend to be more about what people do with their faith. If loving Christ helps one to love their neighbor and care for the least of these, then I support them 100%.

"It is nice for atheist to pretend they are unbiased with no presuppositions, but that is just foolish. Everyone is biased and every belief is biased."

Agreed, but I don't know any atheists who think they are unbiased, do you?

Sadly, when some define atheism, it is as part of the foundation for their straw man version of an atheist, similarly to what they do with other world views.

I shudder to think of the "world religion" books I read that were published by Christian authors, they were naught, but proselytizing tools, made to show how other religions were inferior or conflicted with Christianity.

Yeah, I've gotten the broken record, circular logic thing before. It's almost like mild autism the way some repeat their message.

I like it. I would imagine it would help to put your head in the right place at the start of your day.