Yep... I'm one. I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. Voting for Mickey Mouse is starting to look like a good idea these days. Our current system has turned into nothing more than a political payback mechanism, with each party supporting their respective special interests. The average Joe just pays the bill.

Re: your response to B - I DO refuse to acknowledge what you say. The Senate bill is packed with taxes; Sen Carl Levin said today, "Higher-income Americans should be taxed to pay for more troops sent to Afghanistan". I can quote all sorts of references, even a news article that, coincidentally, says the US is following EXACTLY the same path Japan did. But you'll just dispute it.

As for 'conventional wisdom' (not the same thing, unfortunately, as 'common sense'), and what 'most economists' beliefs... I'd like to know of ONE who thinks this insane spending is a good idea. Are you mixing up economists with politicians? They've done nothing but back-peddle on all their predictions about economic growth, and statements saying if we have a stimulus bill, unemployment won't go over 8%. And, of course, the now infamous recovery.gov website touting all the jobs 'saved'... that weren't.

I know it's pointless to argue with an ideologue. So if you want to claim victory, you can have it. You are right... there's nothing wrong with the government spending us into oblivion. We should have free healthcare for all. If you don't want to work for a living, you don't have to... the government will feed you, and house you, and eventually, even bury you. And this $12 trillion debt will just disappear like the morning fog. I just wish I had your optimism and faith in the government!

I'll leave you to consider one thing: Why is it that all the 'whining conservatives' are people who work hard for their money and are willing to pay their FAIR taxes, but feel government should be as small as possible, spend as little as possible, and should only function within the limited capacity set by the Constitution; while Liberals are people who think they know better how Americans should spend their money, who believe that it's governments job to take from the productive to give to the unproductive, and who believe that government should manage as much of our lives as possible, regardless of the cost?

This is the crux of the argument. You either believe in government, or you believe in the individual. You either want Socialism or you want Capitalism. I am not here to change your mind. I am dedicated to helping my philosophy prevail, just as I'm sure you are. And while we won't settle anything here, I do enjoy the debate. It helps me keep my values and beliefs clear in my own mind.

Breitbart should pressure Holder, and even if Holder does his job, release the tapes before the election anyway. We need all the ammunition we can get to wake America up. They need to see the scum who are enabling our rapid disintegration into Socialism. Of course, if Holder was smart, he'd 'investigate', find no grounds for charges, and put it behind us long before the elections. I'm surprised they haven't done that already.

I think they're just gonna drive the US economy off a cliff, destroy the dollar, and then set Washington on fire and flee to China. Never mind the carbon footprint that will leave!

Granted, but even so, I think my example of the effect government spending has on the 'suit' industry is valid. There is just no way government can dump that much money into the economy without consequences.

When government creates money and dumps it into the economy, there are only a few possible ways to get it back:
A - It can pull that money back in, and destroy it. This is what Geithner is telling us they are planning to do with the TARP Bailout money. Bailout money, like that given to the banks, can be held and repaid, like many of the banks did. However, this money technically never went into the economy. The banks just used it to bolster their balance sheets.
B - It can raise taxes to recover it, but raising taxes during a recession is even recognized by most Democrats as NOT conducive to economic growth. That is why conservatives want tax cuts. That stimulates growth, which increases revenue for the government. They could then use the revenues to pay back the borrowed money. This just doesn't happen in real life, though - the government just spends it.
C - They can leave it in the economy and let inflation eat it away. This is the method of choice for the government, but it is devastating for the common man. And, given the amount of money they created, we're going to need massive inflation to pull that money back in if it's going to happen during the lifetime of anyone alive today.

You just cannot tax and spend your way out of a recession. It's been tried and tried again, with the same outcome. The new twist now is, CREATE money out of thin air and spend your way out. At least with taxes, it's real money. I just don't understand why there's no more outcry by the American people than there is. I don't believe we understand the consequences of what the governments doing.