ConverseAtheist
49p103 comments posted · 11 followers · following 0
31 weeks ago @ Conversational Atheist - Bible: Slavery · 1 reply · +2 points
You've got the closest thing to a verse that says slavery is wrong. The NRSV quotes it as:
1 Corinthians 7:20-24 "Let each of you remain in the condition in which you were called. Were you a slave when called? Do not be concerned about it. Even if you can gain your freedom, make use of your present condition now more than ever. For whoever was called in the Lord as a slave is a freed person belonging to the Lord, just as whoever was free when called is a slave of Christ. You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of human masters. In whatever condition you were called, brothers and sisters, there remain with God."
Pauls says, twice in those 5 verses to remain in whatever condition you were called to Christ. If you're a slave, remain in that condition. Why? The one who was called in the Lord as a slave is a freed person belonging to the Lord. In God's eyes, that person is not a slave, but a freed person.
Of course every freed person when called is Christ's slave...
Two points.
1. This is clearly not a condemnation of slavery as an institution. If God wanted to make this clear, He's a worse communicator than the UN.
2. It seems to me that Paul is writing to not become slaves of human beings in the same sense that Jesus says you can't serve two masters. Sure, be a human slave -- but you are truly a master to God. Remember that, and you a free.
41 weeks ago @ Conversational Atheist - Comments for Azeusism ... · 0 replies · +1 points
You got it right!
50 weeks ago @ Conversational Atheist - Comments for Who Would... · 0 replies · +1 points
B) I'd agree that for natural explanations, "could be" would have varying degrees of believability informed by our everyday experience. We find a coin balanced on its edge -- it could be that I tried to flip it and it landed on it's side. Or, it could be that I balanced it to make a point. You don't have that luxury with supernatural explanations. How do you put even rough odds on one supernatural explanation over another?
C) What? I'm granting you for the sake of argument that everyone you want to have been an eyewitness died proclaiming what they saw. I'm saying, one supernatural explanation is that all of them were possessed by trouble-making spirits. Why would people lie about it? They were possessed, and people who are possessed do and say things contrary to what you expect people to do. Dead simple explanation.
57 weeks ago @ Conversational Atheist - Going from Is to Ought · 1 reply · +1 points
Also, you have an interesting Worst-Case Scenario where some creatures get pleasure from the absolute suffering of the remaining conscious creatures in the universe. I think Harris would split the difference with you and say, "Will you at least admit that the absolute worst suffering for all conscious creatures is bad and cannot be confused with good?"
I think the rest of his argument plays out fine as long as you have a starting point that's unequivocally bad. Thanks for commenting, you gave me a lot to think about, sorry for taking to long to respond. I'm going to cross-post my comment.
57 weeks ago @ Conversational Atheist - Comments for Mohammad:... · 0 replies · +1 points
2. There is an enormous temptation to think that theist and atheist views are held in the same way, with the same conviction, and for similar reasons. Please resist this temptation.
No one has argued that what was technically legal from the laws of California and Delaware in the 1800's is the perfect example of how a person ought to live his life. If a person did argue for this, he's an idiot.
I wrote before: "I condemn any modern system that encourages or even accepts 9 year old (or younger) girls being married to and having sex with 40+ year old men. You seem to think that this is allowed somehow in California -- if this is the case, then I condemn it unequivocally. I have no issue criticizing California, or any other system (including Islam, Sharia, etc.). "
Islam does teach that they have a perfect model for acting morally -- which people should strive to aim toward -- the way that Mohammad lived his life.
Now you come with an interesting argument -- this life which is supposed to be the perfect example of how to lead a moral life is so poorly documented that you can produce conflicting accounts how old the women he married were. Ok, I accept your argument, the Hadith is contradictory on apparently important moral questions concerning Mohammad's life.
How does that possibly help the case for basing moral behavior on the collection of contradictory passages about Mohammad's life? You've made my argument stronger. Want to try again?
57 weeks ago @ Conversational Atheist - Comments for Slavery i... · 0 replies · +1 points
Lest you misconstrue Exodus 21:16 is somehow making a larger point against slavery itself, please note what's written in the same chapter 4 verses later: Exodus 21:20-21 (NRSV) When a slaveowner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.
I'm not sure what the point of the rest of your comment. Yes, some atheists use the Bible as some form of written proof (I prefer the word evidence) that religion is evil, and that it is fiction, written by men, and to point out its ironies (I prefer the word contradictions both internal and with modern moral sentiments). Also, yes, when people commit their life to following a terrible book full of falsehoods and dangerous writing, I will point these facts out in an attempt to both fix the believer and warn nonbelievers.
The next two sentences have no connection that I can see with your previous comment. Do you think that it is wrong to argue against writing that you find offensive and wrong? (I'd hope not, because I think that's what you're trying to do in your comment). What is it that atheists do that makes you physically ill with shame? Any why?
64 weeks ago @ Conversational Atheist - Homosex is immoral -- ... · 0 replies · +1 points
64 weeks ago @ Conversational Atheist - Homosex is immoral -- ... · 0 replies · +1 points
Almost as difficult as making the case the that the Bible condemns owning slaves as immoral.
You know that Article 4 of the United Nation’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights says, "No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms."
Looks like the Bible could take a few pointers from the UN on morality -- unless you don't think that owning people as slaves is immoral?
64 weeks ago @ Conversational Atheist - Homosex is immoral -- ... · 0 replies · +1 points
Ok good -- you'll note that this entry never once tries to do that. (If you think it does, please quote what you're talking about).
64 weeks ago @ Conversational Atheist - Homosex is immoral -- ... · 0 replies · +1 points
1. The argument -- "if Christianity were true, contradiction X would obtain, therefore, Christianity is not true" -- is valid.
The only possible arguments that would contradict this argument is if it concluded "Christianity is true." -- Which, none of my arguments do. Therefore, there is no contradiction.
Concluding Christianity is false and arguing that Christianity gets specific questions wrong is perfectly coherent.
Branch