I tried to give you an up-thumb, but one too-small iPod screen plus one clumsy finger later and, well, I accidentally gave you a down-thumb instead. Sorry. :-( So mentally give yourself a +1, and I'll, uh, try to refrain from rating comments when I'm using the iPod.

Sorry, wasn't comparing your posts with Westboro. I was trying to make the point that HOW we represent the Truth matters, and they are the obvious over-the-edge-of-the-cliff example of what not to do. Also, nowhere did I characterize your posts as "ridiculous". Although (and I say this not with malice, but with a chuckle), "I've omitted all my defenses because you consider them inappropriate" may perhaps cross over the line into the territory of "slightly ridiculous". If you considered your posts reasonable, if you are confident in the content of what you said and the manner in which you said it, why in the world would you delete them because of some stranger with a little different take?

Please, consider looking into Stand to Reason and Greg Koukl's podcast. Good, good stuff. You won't be disappointed.

I hope you're not trying to imply that you know whether my Christianity is hot, cold, or lukewarm. I was not saying that the message isn't important, I was saying that our manner is as important as our message. I doubt those Westboro Baptist Church folks have inspired many people to commit their lives to Christ, but I guarantee they've made more than one person think, "If that's what being a Christian looks like, then I don't want to be one!" That's not how evangelism is supposed to work. If we win the argument but lose the person, what have we gained? We should present the Truth fervently and with diplomacy, never losing sight of the humanity of the person on the other side.

Grew up in the SF Bay Area, so been there, done that, as far as seeing conservatism and Christianity trashed on a daily basis. I've even been on the receiving end of some attempts at dehumanization because of my political beliefs, but I refuse to think of myself as a victim. I'm not talking who's who of victimhood, anyway, I'm talking about how we conduct ourselves when we disagree.

Are you familiar with Greg Koukl or Stand to Reason (str.org)? I highly recommend you check them (and their fantastic podcast) out. The focus is on being ambassadors for Christ. We should be well-equipped to share and defend our message without falling into the traps of emotional arguments or hyperbole, which only undermine what we have to say. I recognize your passion, and we absolutely need passionate people out there spreading the Word. After reading through much of what you've written in this thread, however, I humbly submit that you often come across as ARGUING!!!! instead of engaging in reasoned discourse. I think we get more done when we're engaged in reasoned discourse.

But . . . gays *are* people. We're *all* people. We can disagree with a political agenda or behaviors, but we shouldn't fall into the trap of subtly dehumanizing a group because we disagree with them. It instantly weakens the credibility of our arguments.

I'm sensing a troll in our midst. If you're trying to (very clumsily) highlight the hate you think is endemic amongst conservatives, I've got a newsflash for you: wherever there are large groupings of people, you'll find pockets of hate, regardless of which side of the aisle the grouping happens to fall. Why don't you grow up and try to engage us in something resembling intelligent discourse? Who knows, we might learn from each other. But this? This is like a bad version of a middle school lunch room taunting.

On the other hand, if you are sincere in what you've said, you might want to try Iran; I hear they're completely homosexual-free.

I've sometimes wondered the same thing about the Parents Television Council.

Jesus didn't go all righteous kung-fu on the local farmer's market, His anger was specifically at men who were using the temple (in other words, His house) to conduct business. "And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. And He said to them, 'It is written, "My house shall be called a house of prayer"; but you are making it a robber's den.'" (Matthew 21:12-13 NASB) If we're going to start down the path of protesting every company that has a sinner for their spokesperson, there's going to be a whole lot of protesting going on and not much else, 'cause we're all, every single one of us, sinners. I think the time would be far better spent trying to share with our neighbors the truth of Christ's gift of salvation, because at the end of it all, THAT'S what matters.

Getting personal here for a moment, and I hope the moderator doesn't think this is too off-topic, but here we go. We've watched my husband's brother struggle with alcoholism for 30+ years. He wanted to quit. He TRIED to quit on his own, many many times. He's been in the hospital twice, the last time because he tried to quit cold turkey and had a seizure from the withdrawal. Shortly after that experience, he started a stint of what was probably some of his hardest drinking, with a little vicodin thrown in for good measure. He finally found bottom, and agreed to go into detox. He'd tried AA before, and it wasn't a fit for him. This time, he used the book "Rational Recovery" by Jack Trimpey. This book isn't for everyone, and the author does a fair amount of unnecessary (in my opinion) AA-bashing (different things work for different people, it'd be nice if he could leave it at that), but my bro-in-law describes this as the book that helped him "find normal". After 30+ years, that's saying something.

So. Before you end up in a withdrawal-related seizure, maybe consider giving this book a glance. It might work for you, it might not, but it's worth a shot, maybe? I don't know who you are, but I can feel your pain coming right through the computer screen. You'll be in my prayers from here on out. Don't give up.

Have you ever watched an alcoholic try to quit? I mean really, truly try on their own, with the often inevitable cycle of "I WANT to quit! I messed up. I'll never be able to quit. I am a worthless failure. A drink will make me feel better." And so it goes. It's been my observation that most addicts, be it to alcohol, drugs, food, gambling, whatever it is that offers the escape, really do want to quit. If it were as simple for everyone as saying no, there'd be a lot fewer addicts in the world.