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Vermillion - Quick Notes: Witch Hunters, Anti-Pagans, and Getting Religion

Vermillion — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 02:36:14 +0000

Do these folks do research? Actual full blown research with footnotes, links etc? I'm all for intelligent debate but some of these comments just are beyond my realm of understanding.

Vermillion - Theology After Google and other Pagan News of Note

Vermillion — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 02:33:33 +0000

I know others have said it far more eloquently then I could but I have to pipe up in regards to this comment. My mother is one of the most Christian people on this planet in my opinion. She pays tithes, has more bibles then room for them, can quote it verbatim in both Hebrew AND Aramaic. She's not completely happy with the Pagan I am but she loves me anyway because I'm her daughter. She's also an armchair scientist. One pastor she used to love said the earth was 6k years old and she promptly removed all traces of him from her spiritual world. Her opinion is that you can believe in Jesus (or Yeshua as she calls him), you can be holy but there's also you know scientific proof that the world is millions and millions of years old. By denying that fact you deny Jesus in her opinion. So not all Christians subscribe to your worldview and you'd do a better service to your religion by stating that this is just YOUR worldview and there are countless others :)

Robin Artisson - Theology After Google and other Pagan News of Note

Robin Artisson — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 02:31:42 +0000

Asking me to share a critique of Christianity that doesn't rely on accusations (actually, they aren't accusations, but statements of truth) that Christainity is paranoid, fear-mongering, and asinine, is like asking me to describe what a chicken's egg looks like without using words that refer to shape, texture, measurement, or color. Using those restrictions, here's what I'd have to say: "A chicken egg is a thing, laid by hens, that contains a baby chicken." Now, with that description, you'd have a hell of a time spotting a chicken egg if you saw one. With the necessary words, I could say: "Chicken eggs are usually white (after the factory gets done with them) but naturally off-white, yellowish, brownish, and round, oval-ish, or somewhat roundish. They're typically 3 or so inches in height, and a little smaller in circumference. They're smooth but fragile." The critique of Christianity you want me to share wouldn't be meaningful. You want a critique, without critical language. That's odd- and pointless- to say the least. I think it says more about your comfort zone and your sensibilities, than anything else. Your issue with my criticism of Christianity is alarming to me, as it should be alarming to you. But the slow, quiet venom of Christianity sneaks up on people- particularly those who are latched into super-liberal Christian sects like the Quakers. They often die before they realize what they've done, what they ignored, what they missed, and how they've been taken. Christianity is- from the basic scriptures- predicated on the conversion of the entire world to Christianity. This requires the destruction of non-Christian creeds, or at the very least the butchery of those creeds and non-Christian cultures and their assimilation into the faith of Christ, in some (normally nearly unrecognizable) form. It requires an exceptionalist attitude, no matter how well hidden that attitude is under the guise and smokescreen of "love". It posits the abject lie of eternalism; it teaches people wrong views about the nature of nature, the nature of divinity, and the nature of life. It denies animism, the most basic truth understood by human beings in every primal culture. It denies the appropriateness and natural "fitness" of human existence in the flesh, on this planet, and the appropriateness of human sexuality. It posits a laughingly false story of human origins, setting the masculine up to be ontologically "before" and "superior" to the feminine, handing the feminine the blame for all the world's ills. It mediates the savage and stupid morality of xenhophobic, egomaniacal, homosexual-despising and misogynistic desert nomads to the rest of the world with the firm belief that their tribal morality was "sent by the real god" down from a mountain on a tablet or in a torah, and was intended for all humans, as the highest form of moral life. It's notion of "love" is a flat failure, owing to a dozen factors, but the most important of which is the simple fact that you can't choose to NOT love God without facing eternal death or torment for it. Not what you'd call a healthy model of a loving relationship between a mortal and a divinity. Really Cat- you've heard all this before. I don't need to repeat it, nor do I need to clean it up to suit your ear. I don't have to show you where the paranoia, fear-mongering, and poopoo is; these things are explicit to everyone of any intelligence who objectively reads the scriptures. The only people who don't see it are of two types: the Christians who love it, because it feeds their hunger for power, "chosen-ness" and who look forward to being proven "right" before all the world on the last judgment, and people who can't find the strength to break away from Christianity, but who are still, deep down, good, gentle, loving people, and who have a deep personal need to sanitize the religion through a radical liberal reading of the scriptures, which really amounts to them ignoring the painful truths about their religion's scriptures and history, and present reality, and apologizing over and over again for them.

John W. Morehead - Theology After Google and other Pagan News of Note

John W. Morehead — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 02:14:09 +0000

Virgil, I appreciate your zeal and dedication, but it is just this sort of narrow definition of Christianity that not only excludes Pagans from the conversation, but most of your fellow Christians as well. I am a Protestant evangelical, albeit a very different one than most I think, but I don't accept the type of Christianity you espouse, not least of which is the young-earth creationist and escapist aspects you find so essential. I'd suggest that you consider a little self-critique of your theology and then work on how this might related to communication with religious others on their websites.

John W. Morehead - Theology After Google and other Pagan News of Note

John W. Morehead — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 02:07:37 +0000

I was not able to attend the Theology after Google conference, but was intrigued by it. One of my colleagues, Craig Detweiler, attended and spoke on a topic related to the book Halos & Avatars which addresses theology and videogames and digital cultures, a volume which I was privileged to contribute to in the area of cybersociality and spirituality... See More. As to your thoughts related to this conference, I don't think this represents an interest in Paganism, even while it may be more Pagan friendly, but it does represent a healthy recognition of not only the theological significance of the digital media, but also that Christianity in its ecclesiological and educational forms must adapt to the late or postmodern Western context. I applaud such efforts and am happy to be a part.

Eplidis - Quick Notes: Witch Hunters, Anti-Pagans, and Getting Religion

Eplidis — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 01:33:45 +0000

The practise of blot (used here to refer to sacrifice) in Heathenry is on the rise, not just among Theodish folk but among other Heathens as well.

DairyStateDad - Quick Notes: Witch Hunters, Anti-Pagans, and Getting Religion

DairyStateDad — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 01:33:41 +0000

I visited Get Religion once, maybe twice some months ago (following from here, actually) and didn't like the chip on their shoulder. So I haven't been back, and I guess I won't be back after seeing your comment here.

Keep up your good work, though!

Eplidis - Quick Notes: Witch Hunters, Anti-Pagans, and Getting Religion

Eplidis — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 01:26:48 +0000

Wow. I think this made me gag.

Eplidis - Quick Notes: Witch Hunters, Anti-Pagans, and Getting Religion

Eplidis — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 01:25:47 +0000

Not to mention that what these Alternative Right nuts miss is that a modern blot is commensality. The sacrificial activity is linked with communal feasting, in which humans and Gods partake together in sacred partnership. It is a means of creating, affirming, and strengthening a bond between us and them, and is a positive event connected with celebration. Every swine blot I have attended has been a joyous event in honour of Freyr - and very beautiful. A good book on the subject is "Dying for the Gods" by Miranda Aldhouse Green.

Cat C-B - Theology After Google and other Pagan News of Note

Cat C-B — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:42:22 +0000

*sigh* That should be "engaging with." (I miss being able to edit my comments! Whether it's browser related or what, it's tiresome not to be able to correct those typos when I spot them after I post!)

Cat C-B - Theology After Google and other Pagan News of Note

Cat C-B — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:40:59 +0000

Robin, could you perhaps share with us a critique of Christianity that relies less on accusations of being paranoid, a fear-monger, or an asshole? The same ideas, with less deliberately provocative language, would actually present something worth engaging in.

Cat C-B - Theology After Google and other Pagan News of Note

Cat C-B — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:38:23 +0000

Virgil, with respect, this is only one variety of Christianity... and this post is perilously close to proselytizing for it. You yourself are welcome here, but evangelism in any form will not be. Just sayin'.

Robin Artisson - Theology After Google and other Pagan News of Note

Robin Artisson — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:46:49 +0000

The belief he's citing is his own brand of annihilationism- the notion that souls that don't make god's cut just blink out of existence forever. Some Christians believe it, chiefly the Jehova's Witnesses, but others do, too. Some intellectual Christians (lol) believe that the idea of annihilationism is a "good alternative" to the idea of eternal hellfire, because it makes god look like less of an asshole. But in reality, it's just more stupid bull poopoo. It's more spiritual elitism, more fear, more baseless, groundless paranoia, inculcated into people by hysteriarchs and fear-mongers to program them to be Christian for life. And it works well on people with low wits.

Robin Artisson - Theology After Google and other Pagan News of Note

Robin Artisson — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:44:19 +0000

Tea, I'd love to help, but two out of three times, my comments disappear when I try to exercise my "freedom of expression." I have plenty of things I could say to the annoying Christian who seems to have joined our chorus here. The beliefs he cites as "christian" are farcical to say the least- but then, what brand of Christianity isn't? This guy actually believes that if you didn't believe in his god, you get to "sleep unconscious forever" while god sighs a lonely, sad sigh at the memory of you forever. I suppose that's better than popping and cracking in fire forever, while God laughs- but it's equally as moronic.

magickalrealism - Quick Notes: Witch Hunters, Anti-Pagans, and Getting Religion

magickalrealism — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:02:57 +0000

I've always assumed that these attacks on neopaganism are a misguided attempt to solve emptying pews.

Ivy - Quick Notes: Witch Hunters, Anti-Pagans, and Getting Religion

Ivy — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:12:12 +0000

"...nearly every aspect of the western world worth saving is a product of Christianity, not Paganism. Even the distinctly non-Christian things are Christian in origin.” Let us take a closer look at some of what the article quotes from Mr. Chesterton's work: “The French Revolution is of Christian origin. The newspaper is of Christian origin... Physical science is of Christian origin.” The French Revolution is of /Humanist/ origin. The notions of individual liberty and religious freedom were chief among its philosophical underpinnings. And a powerful resentment of the Roman Catholic Church's mandatory tax on crops and general anticlericalism were rallying points for the common people. To say nothing of the fact that during La Révolution, the Church was stripped of its land, the monastic vows were abolished, and all religious orders were disolved. The supposed religiosity of the origin of the newspaper is, well, a little hard to prove either way. But we can be sure that credit for the /written word/, which makes newspapers and this very discussion possible, is most certainly a pre-Christian invention. And on the matter of physical sciences, Aristotle, Democritus, Leucippus, Geber (Abu Musa Jābir ibn Hayyān al azdi), Callippus, Aristarchus, Gan De, Archimedes, Strabo, Eratosthenes, Theophratus, and Heraclides Ponticus, among many others, would like a word with Mr. Chesterton and the author of the article. We can thank non-Christians for the notion of atoms and the heliocentric model of the movement of the planets. Finally, on the subject of "saving the West" - which, if we're to take the Alternative Right author's criteria, seems regrettably to mean "keeping those dirty Muslims and foreigners in the desert where they belong" - I find I agree with a comment left by one "Bill": "It was Athena's spear, and not Christ's, that threw back the Persians at Salamis. It was the lightning of Jupiter, not of Yahweh, that crushed the Carthaginians. Mr. Ford seems to be of the delusion that the history of the west began around 1 CE."

Souris Optique - Theology After Google and other Pagan News of Note

Souris Optique — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:04:15 +0000

My response was "Where else would he be? They invented him."

Souris Optique - Theology After Google and other Pagan News of Note

Souris Optique — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:02:19 +0000

Your personal sect is not all of Christianity. PLENTY of Christians don't believe any of that.

Souris Optique - Quick Note: Pantheism Not Paganism

Souris Optique — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:44:40 +0000

This puzzles me no end.

Souris Optique - Quick Note: Pantheism Not Paganism

Souris Optique — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:39:05 +0000

Why the dismissive dig, then?